Clutchless trans

[Ed Carpenter]

Jeff Brad Zaskowski finished #4 in national points last year. he had number of good days last year.

[Tim Kish]

Guys like Brad & Kevin are the exception, not the rule - without driver aides like adjustable buttons, etc there are ALOT of racers out there that would be best to just stay home. Same goes for the delay box classes.

From a pure driver vs driver standpoint, none of the driver aides should be allowed. BUT since a large QTY of drivers need all the help they can get (I have an air shifter so I guess put me in that category) they are vocal and NHRA seems to cater to the squeaky wheels in absence of a democratic system.

[Mike Dahl]

I agree with Jeff that NHRA should combine the sticks and autos. I have raced both sticks and autos and clearly there is an unfair advantage for someone who is allowed to launch their car with the release of a button versus the movement of the foot. If there is a debate I would suggest observing what happens when someone gets caught using a transbrake in a "foot brake" class.

As well, and for what it's worth, take a look at the horsepower ratings since the advent of the AHFS. The autos are having horsepower added and for the most part sticks are not. Why? Because the index penalty for having a stick is unequivocally outdated when you consider radial tires, modern three speed transmissions, and the benefit of a 5 to 1 ratio of automatic cars versus stick cars flogging their combinations. I think it's time to consolidate the classes.

[Ed Carpenter]

Right now the 66 Chevy II is rated at 299hp stick /307hp auto for the 327. ed

[442OLDS]

Originally Posted by deuces wild

Right now the 66 Chevy II is rated at 299hp stick /307hp auto for the 327. ed

IF the Sticks and Automatics were to be combined,would the horsepower factors be rated the SAME,or would there still be different ratings depending on transmission type for the same engine?

[Mike Dahl]

Originally Posted by 442OLDS

IF the Sticks and Automatics were to be combined,would the horsepower factors be rated the SAME,or would there still be different ratings depending on transmission type for the same engine?

Let's see.
In the 327 with a 299 stick 307 auto factor in SS/H would require the H car to add 76 lbs and get a .10 back on the index. Pretty close.

My combo:
350 with a 314 stick 327 auto factor in GT/A would require me to add 104 lbs to get a tenth back on the index. A little rough for me with a 2700 lb car ,but pretty close again. It's not a deal breaker for me at least.

Just thinking out loud here but maybe it's worth considering identifying the combos with a difference between the stick and auto factor and then meeting in the middle to consolidate the classes and see where we are. Also it will give the auto racers who have been hit hard by the AHFS a little relief while we see what happens.

So the guy with the 327 auto removes 38 lbs and the stick guy adds 38lbs and we go racing with the same index. I does not sound terrible or inequitable so far.

Oh yeah. Not totally wild about the clutchless trans. I would do it if I have to but I would rather consolidate the classes.

[Ed Carpenter]

I don't agree with somethings the auto get to use, but there is nothing that can be done. it's been that way for along time. I choose to run a stick because my dad ran a stick car his whole life. I was raised on it. I'm good friends with alot of auto guys and I ask them after you let go of the button what do you after that. It's just alot more fun IMO to drive a stick car.

[SuperStockDodge]

Originally Posted by Mike Dahl

I agree with Jeff that NHRA should combine the sticks and autos. I have raced both sticks and autos and clearly there is an unfair advantage for someone who is allowed to launch their car with the release of a button versus the movement of the foot. If there is a debate I would suggest observing what happens when someone gets caught using a transbrake in a "foot brake" class.

As well, and for what it's worth, take a look at the horsepower ratings since the advent of the AHFS. The autos are having horsepower added and for the most part sticks are not. Why? Because the index penalty for having a stick is unequivocally outdated when you consider radial tires, modern three speed transmissions, and the benefit of a 5 to 1 ratio of automatic cars versus stick cars flogging their combinations. I think it's time to consolidate the classes.

Wow, I can't believe what i am reading.. I thought that is what separated the men from the boys was dropping the clutch vs. moving your foot off a brake pedal or releasing a button for a trans brake. I guess all this BS is past the point of no return (pathetic). I would give anything to go back in time (not even that far back either) when Drag Racing was actually cool and the stick shift Stock & Super Stock cars were raced the way they should be. You automatic racers and "Oh i want a bunch of driver aided gadgets" drivers that pretend that you are true stick shift guys, have fun. It's not going in the right direction and the only ones you can blame, is yourselves.

[Jeff Lee]

Originally Posted by Mike Dahl

I agree with Jeff that NHRA should combine the sticks and autos. I have raced both sticks and autos and clearly there is an unfair advantage for someone who is allowed to launch their car with the release of a button versus the movement of the foot. If there is a debate I would suggest observing what happens when someone gets caught using a transbrake in a "foot brake" class.

As well, and for what it's worth, take a look at the horsepower ratings since the advent of the AHFS. The autos are having horsepower added and for the most part sticks are not. Why? Because the index penalty for having a stick is unequivocally outdated when you consider radial tires, modern three speed transmissions, and the benefit of a 5 to 1 ratio of automatic cars versus stick cars flogging their combinations. I think it's time to consolidate the classes.

Exactly. I can't find any valid reason (today, not twenty years ago) that the index spreads are as much as two tenths apart. I don't care how it's cut, split the difference, go to the top or go to the bottom numbers, as Mike stated, the auto trans racers have covered a lot of ground and there is no longer a need to have a spread. And if that's the case, put 'em all together.
Heads up runs are what I and the fans crave. Less classes is what NHRA wants and the same with sponsors. Pinks all out is popular for a reason!

Ed,
SS/H '70 AMX = 315 x 9.5 + 170 = 3160

[Mike Dahl]

For the record I would rather not have any more gadgets. However, the toothpaste is already out of the tube because the automatics already have them and I would like to think it is a reasonable request to have a more equitable way of competing for a good light. On that note, is there anyone, I mean anyone who would argue that having an adjustable button release is not an advantage? It seems like more of a Nintendo game instead of driving to me, but hey they are allowed to do it, so why would they show up to a gun fight with a knife? NHRA allows me a ported head and no matter how much of a purist I may or may not be, I have to be able to compete so I have ported heads. Sorry, that's the way it goes sometimes.

In fact, I totally understand the notion of a button release for the clutch being adverse to someone's way of thinking, but how would those people feel about making the automatic racers put their release button on the brake pedal linkage? Can you imagine the phone calls to Glendora over that one.