Disclaimer?

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by drooze

What about Doug Duells Drag Pak ? It has a title ? Its as "street legal" as any stock elim car ? Is that one ok X-Tech ?

It was my understanding that Doug's car is in fact NOT a Drag Pack car, he couldn't get one, and had to build his own. That was the story that went around.

[Alan Roehrich]

If NHRA wanted to allow racers to get around the weight added by safety and emissions standards, they could have created an adjustment, either a set weight, or a percentage of the total weight, to be removed from the shipping weight.

And purpose built race cars were kept out of Stock, at least traditionally, for a reason. We're seeing the reason right now. It sure as Hell didn't have anything to do with federal safety or emissions mandates.

[art leong]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

If NHRA wanted to allow racers to get around the weight added by safety and emissions standards, they could have created an adjustment, either a set weight, or a percentage of the total weight, to be removed from the shipping weight.

And purpose built race cars were kept out of Stock, at least traditionally, for a reason. We're seeing the reason right now. It sure as Hell didn't have anything to do with federal safety or emissions mandates.

That is why they can't be titled and driven on the street. It has nothing to do with racing. It has to do with regulations and liabilities.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by art leong

That is why they can't be titled and driven on the street. It has nothing to do with racing. It has to do with regulations and liabilities.

The bold text is exactly the problem. It changes the basic principle of Stock Eliminator that goes back decades. It creates a loophole you can drive Mike Edwards' Pro Stock car through. The "new" rule about what is/can be "accepted" in Stock is written in B.S. "legalese" so that NHRA can come in and run over every current participant any time they want (read: any time they can get paid off to do it).

And it has everything to do with "racing". Considering it allows NHRA to decide who has paid them (NHRA) enough money to secure an insurmountable advantage over their competition. Basically what they've created is an extortion racket. They can say to any OEM "if you want to get a killer ringer approved for Stock, pay up."

[Chris "drooze" Wertman]

Alan, Ive asked this before (not of you) and everyone seemed to evade answering it.

Ok here are some "Facts"

Cars are not titled at the factory and you can depending on state even purchase one from a dealer WITHOUT having it titled.

So, next I can LEGALLY Title this vehicle in the State of Ohio.

So let me ask, If I do legally title this car and it is "street legal" and Emission Legal (Many counties in Ohio do NOT have emission requirments)

Then am I ok in your eyes ?

Hmm maybe there a business gambit for me, bring me your DP and I will get it titled and liscenced LEGALLY in the State of Ohio.

So say all 100 Dp owners do that ? Or at LEAST have the opportunity to do that, (we all know many racers whos cars arent or werent ever titled)

So say they have the ability or the opportunity to do that , and some do some dont just like the other Stockers.....

Then in your mind are the cars 100% fine or are your reasons not really all inclusive of the Title issues ?

I plan to do this, maybe before Norwalk I will....then I can post a copy of the title in the window for everyone to see....

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

The bold text is exactly the problem. It changes the basic principle of Stock Eliminator that goes back decades. It creates a loophole you can drive Mike Edwards' Pro Stock car through. The "new" rule about what is/can be "accepted" in Stock is written in B.S. "legalese" so that NHRA can come in and run over every current participant any time they want (read: any time they can get paid off to do it).

And it has everything to do with "racing". Considering it allows NHRA to decide who has paid them (NHRA) enough money to secure an insurmountable advantage over their competition. Basically what they've created is an extortion racket. They can say to any OEM "if you want to get a killer ringer approved for Stock, pay up."

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by drooze

Alan, Ive asked this before (not of you) and everyone seemed to evade answering it.

Ok here are some "Facts"

Cars are not titled at the factory and you can depending on state even purchase one from a dealer WITHOUT having it titled.

So, next I can LEGALLY Title this vehicle in the State of Ohio.

So let me ask, If I do legally title this car and it is "street legal" and Emission Legal (Many counties in Ohio do NOT have emission requirments)

Then am I ok in your eyes ?


So say all 100 Dp owners do that ? Or at LEAST have the opportunity to do that, (we all know many racers whos cars arent or werent ever titled)

So say they have the ability or the opportunity to do that , and some do some dont just like the other Stockers.....

Then in your mind are the cars 100% fine or are your reasons not really all inclusive of the Title issues ?

I plan to do this, maybe before Norwalk I will....then I can post a copy of the title in the window for everyone to see....

The "title" itself is not the issue, it is a subset of the issue, as is the lack of a valid VIN. The cars are not production cars, period. They do not meet federal standards for safety, emissions, or fuel economy. The fact that safety, emissions, and fuel mileage standards now exist or are more stringent than they were 20, 30, or 40 years ago is irrelevant. Even if a county or other municipality does not require emissions or safety testing, the federal agencies do require those standards to be met before the OEM can offer the cars for sale in the U.S. for use on the street, regardless of we they are sold.

The original basic principle behind Stock Eliminator was that it would consist of nothing but vehicles that were fully legal and certified for production and street use in the U.S. That was the whole purpose of the class. Until recently, the most basic rules for Stock Eliminator strictly and specifically prohibited export versions and other cars that were not federal certified for production and street use. Those rules were written for the specific purpose of preventing the problems these new cars are causing.

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by drooze

Alan, Ive asked this before (not of you) and everyone seemed to evade answering it.

Ok here are some "Facts"

Cars are not titled at the factory and you can depending on state even purchase one from a dealer WITHOUT having it titled.

So, next I can LEGALLY Title this vehicle in the State of Ohio.

So let me ask, If I do legally title this car and it is "street legal" and Emission Legal (Many counties in Ohio do NOT have emission requirments)

Then am I ok in your eyes ?

Hmm maybe there a business gambit for me, bring me your DP and I will get it titled and liscenced LEGALLY in the State of Ohio.

So say all 100 Dp owners do that ? Or at LEAST have the opportunity to do that, (we all know many racers whos cars arent or werent ever titled)

So say they have the ability or the opportunity to do that , and some do some dont just like the other Stockers.....

Then in your mind are the cars 100% fine or are your reasons not really all inclusive of the Title issues ?

I plan to do this, maybe before Norwalk I will....then I can post a copy of the title in the window for everyone to see....

"IF" a frog had wings it wouldnt bump its *****.

[Chris "drooze" Wertman]

Originally Posted by art leong

That is why they can't be titled and driven on the street. It has nothing to do with racing. It has to do with regulations and liabilities.

Hey Art, got Dyno results from a buddies 3.6 6cylinder Camaro....NOTHING absolutley NOTHING touched but the tune , 490hp......... NOTHING but a tune....told you when someone figure out the VVT and DI it would be evil...

Next when the NHRA classifies those theyll be saying DI cars shouldnt be allowed and VVT since you can lope your lift. Etc....Etc....

I told you thats the next "killer" combo, even when they rate it at 300 advertised. With some sticks in it, 550 is no problem.

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

It was my understanding that Doug's car is in fact NOT a Drag Pack car, he couldn't get one, and had to build his own. That was the story that went around.

True but it still dosent have the engine thats a legal (Emmisions certified) street engine for the year car as it came with off the show room.

[FINESPLINE]

Originally Posted by X-TECH MAN

True but it still dosent have the engine thats a legal (Emmisions certified) street engine for the year car as it came with off the show room.

T.hat is true but most of the cars in ss/s are put together to represent the cars that fit a certain class. Example------your mothers 6 cyl. powerglide nova can be put together as a B/S 396/375 as long as the correct parts and trim are there.