2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes

[Ed Fernandez]

Originally Posted by Mike Carr

Here's an off-the-wall idea (or maybe not).

This was proposed several years ago for bracket racing (It may have been by the late Steve Taylor). Best total package wins, and there are no more redlights or breakouts ever. Just the closest total package to .000 wins. Example:

Me, in DF/S, dialed 15.05. An opponent in a B/SA dialed 10.50.
My reaction time -.002. Opponents RT .010
My ET 15.048. My opponent 10.512

My total package is -.004. Opponent is .022

Under the proposed system, I would be the winner, since my total run was closer to perfect (.000 package) than my opponent's.

That should get some opinions flowing.


As for the worst redlight, it would be of great benefit to me to see it changed, as I have always been THE slowest Stocker on the property at every race I've ever ran at in my career, except four ('04 and '06 Dutch, '02 Delmar and '02 Atco LODRS). If NHRA/IHRA were to go to the worst redlight loses, hey, great. It would be of help to me and all slow cars. I'd be in favor of it. If they don't change it, I am ok with it, too. Would it bring me out of retirement if it was changed? No. NHRA and IHRA have much bigger overall issues that I have a problem with than the redlight rule. If they were to fix those, then maybe you'd see me back. Yes, the current redlight rule does favor the faster car, but I knew the rules coming in, fair or not. This argument comes up once a year it seems (usually by Dedman). One can make the argument for and against both the slower car, and faster car, and who has the advantage.

Faster car:
-gets to leave last
-has the race in front of them the whole way
-has a car that is not affected as much by weather/wind changes
-has parts readily available more so than some slower/older cars

Slower car:
-gets to leave first with no distractions
-a slow(er) car will usually hook better, and is not totally dependant on a good starting line
-usually costs less than a big-block or late model fast car
-likely has a softer HP factor and can run further under (in some cases)

That's the beauty of Class Racing. There is something for everyone. Bracket racing artists, go-fast guys, record chasers, whatever tickles your fancy. Stock has 51 (now 52 in 2011) classes. S/S has many more (80+, I believe). Almost anyone can find something to race, based on personal preferance. Why people constantly want to change it dramatically is beyond me. If it is in the intent of being safer, more cost-effective, and in the spirit of fairer competition (whether it's putting the new cars in FX classes, reducing HP for older cars, changing the redlight rule, etc etc), I am 100% in favor of it. In the grand scheme of things, my opinion(s) don't mean jack squat. I don't race anymore, and don't intend to in the near future, unless things change within the sanctioning bodies. Then I can again become a current racer and can have ACTUAL input.

Mikey,you're making rocket science out of a simple 1/4 mile drag race.

[Mike Carr]

Eddie, it wasn't MY idea. Just repeating something I heard several years ago and wanted to see racers reactions, for the fun of it.

[Chad Rhodes]

Originally Posted by Mike Carr

Eddie, it wasn't MY idea. Just repeating something I heard several years ago and wanted to see racers reactions, for the fun of it.

put down the pipe mike

[bill dedman]

Some things to ponder...

1. The worse red light rule would hardly ever come into play, as that is a rare situation (worse red light by the second car to leave,) Most of the time, it would go totally unnoticed.

2. This rule change is NOT necessarily about slow vs. fast cars. It applies to EVERY race that is not a heads-up run. Any dissimilar classed cars, such as an A Stocker vs. a B Stocker, or a K Stocker vs. an L Stocker.... The tendency is to think that it's just a benefit for lower-classed cars, but it would benefit virtually EVERYONE who runs a handicapped race in that they could no longer lose to a car with a worse red-light infraction than thery had.

3. No "driving adjustments" would be necessary because no red light would come on before the second car had left the line.

In short, there's no logical reason NOT to change it that I can see. The contention that if you have a higher-classed car, and you are racing against. say, a T Stock car, and the T Stocker red lit, you'd be on the converter, waiting for the green a longer time, is a pretty weak argument against this rule change, considering the benefits. The only competitor who could NOT ever benefit from this rule change would be any car in the top class. He'd lose the built-in advantage of the present situation, wherein EVERY CAR HE RACES in a handicapped race is faced with redlight jeopardy before he is. He'd lose that unfair advantage.

Don't you think that everyone racing should have an equal chance to redlight?

This system would provide that. What we have now doesn't work that way; the second car to leave never has a chance to redlight if the first car turns on the bukb. That sucks.

It's sucked since 1963, when they didn't have the software to fix it, like they fixed the original first car to breakout rule.

Time to get rid of this antiquated unfair system.

Ed,if you can't understand that, you simply need to think about it a while longer... you'll get it, eventually... like you did with the "worst breakout" rule that you're okay with. Same deal... I know you don't want to return to the original "First car breakout loses."

[novassdude]

Originally Posted by bill dedman

Some things to ponder...

1. The worse red light rule would hardly ever come into play, as that is a rare situation (worse red light by the second car to leave,) Most of the time, it would go totally unnoticed.

"

Since this rule change wiould have so little effect lets let NHRA worry about all the screwed up things that do effect alot of people.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by novassdude

Since this rule change wiould have so little effect lets let NHRA worry about all the screwed up things that do effect alot of people.

Perish the thought.

It's an inequity, either perceived or real, and all inequities, no matter how small, whether real or perceived, must be remedied, life must be made fair, it's an imperative.

After all, there are no bigger or more important issues in NHRA, or class racing, than this one. Especially if you aren't even racing in a class.

[Danny Ashley]

Bill says that the worst redlight rule would hardly ever come into play, as this is a rare situation and most of the time would go totally unnoticed. So I decided to see how many times this has occured at National events this year in Stock. Listed below are the events and which races were involved:
POMONA-
Denysenko C/SA -.007
Totaro B/SA -.021 WON

Irving O/SA -.033
Wong F/SA -.044 WON

GAINSVILLE-
King E/SA -.032
Feist B/S -.052 WON

Freeman V/SA -.023
Kenny A/SA -.052 WON

Hidalgo D/SA -.021 WON
Parker H/SA -.008

ST.LOUIS-
Cradduck AA/SA -.010 WON
Richardson C/SA -.003

ATLANTA-
Campbell R/SA -.003
Robbins H/SA -.032 WON

BRISTOL-
Bennett D/SA -.017 WON
Marshall G/SA -.009

Faulk C/SA -.087 WON*****
Livingston J/SA -.135

Mattingly C/SA -.013 WON*****
Beeler G/S -.500

Miller E/SA -.023 WON
Robbins N/SA -.014

SEATTLE-
Hill A/SA -.021 WON*****
Davison I/S -.254

Cry AA/SA -.019 WON
Method B/SA -.002

SONOMA-
Rayburn I/SA -.009 WON*****
Stewart J/SA -.013

DENVER-
Holzman AA/SA -.049 WON
Neugebauer D/SA -.032

BRAINERD-
Rennquist F/SA -.037 WON
Line J/SA -.003

Bredemus B/SA -.057 WON
DeMenge E/SA -.025

DALLAS-
Hidalgo Sr. D/SA -.012 WON
Bannister F/SA -.010

READING-
Massafra E/SA -.007 WON*****
Sepanek I/SA -.023

The wins with the stars beside them de-notes the faster car red lit the least amount. So we have 19 races and if the worst red light rule was in effect, 14 cars would have advanced to the next round because they were the better driver up front. Instead, they went home. Of these races, the won who benifitted the most by not having the worst red light rule was Kevin Cradduck. His round 3 redlight was negated and he went on to runner-up. Good job Kevin! Hope you found this interesting. Danny

[KingReptile]

That rule would of put in the finals at least 3 or 4 times ...I'm all for it !!!

[Jeff Lee]

Originally Posted by Danny Ashley

Bill says that the worst redlight rule would hardly ever come into play, as this is a rare situation and most of the time would go totally unnoticed. So I decided to see how many times this has occured at National events this year in Stock. Listed below are the events and which races were involved:
POMONA-
Denysenko C/SA -.007
Totaro B/SA -.021 WON

Irving O/SA -.033
Wong F/SA -.044 WON

GAINSVILLE-
King E/SA -.032
Feist B/S -.052 WON

Freeman V/SA -.023
Kenny A/SA -.052 WON

Hidalgo D/SA -.021 WON
Parker H/SA -.008

ST.LOUIS-
Cradduck AA/SA -.010 WON
Richardson C/SA -.003

ATLANTA-
Campbell R/SA -.003
Robbins H/SA -.032 WON

BRISTOL-
Bennett D/SA -.017 WON
Marshall G/SA -.009

Faulk C/SA -.087 WON*****
Livingston J/SA -.135

Mattingly C/SA -.013 WON*****
Beeler G/S -.500

Miller E/SA -.023 WON
Robbins N/SA -.014

SEATTLE-
Hill A/SA -.021 WON*****
Davison I/S -.254

Cry AA/SA -.019 WON
Method B/SA -.002

SONOMA-
Rayburn I/SA -.009 WON*****
Stewart J/SA -.013

DENVER-
Holzman AA/SA -.049 WON
Neugebauer D/SA -.032

BRAINERD-
Rennquist F/SA -.037 WON
Line J/SA -.003

Bredemus B/SA -.057 WON
DeMenge E/SA -.025

DALLAS-
Hidalgo Sr. D/SA -.012 WON
Bannister F/SA -.010

READING-
Massafra E/SA -.007 WON*****
Sepanek I/SA -.023

The wins with the stars beside them de-notes the faster car red lit the least amount. So we have 19 races and if the worst red light rule was in effect, 14 cars would have advanced to the next round because they were the better driver up front. Instead, they went home. Of these races, the won who benifitted the most by not having the worst red light rule was Kevin Cradduck. His round 3 redlight was negated and he went on to runner-up. Good job Kevin! Hope you found this interesting. Danny

What percentage does this represent in ALL ROUNDS of Stock National event competition in 2010?
My guess is it isn't squat.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Danny Ashley

Bill says that the worst redlight rule would hardly ever come into play, as this is a rare situation and most of the time would go totally unnoticed. So I decided to see how many times this has occured at National events this year in Stock. Listed below are the events and which races were involved:
POMONA-
Denysenko C/SA -.007
Totaro B/SA -.021 WON

Irving O/SA -.033
Wong F/SA -.044 WON

GAINSVILLE-
King E/SA -.032
Feist B/S -.052 WON

Freeman V/SA -.023
Kenny A/SA -.052 WON

Hidalgo D/SA -.021 WON
Parker H/SA -.008

ST.LOUIS-
Cradduck AA/SA -.010 WON
Richardson C/SA -.003

ATLANTA-
Campbell R/SA -.003
Robbins H/SA -.032 WON

BRISTOL-
Bennett D/SA -.017 WON
Marshall G/SA -.009

Faulk C/SA -.087 WON*****
Livingston J/SA -.135

Mattingly C/SA -.013 WON*****
Beeler G/S -.500

Miller E/SA -.023 WON
Robbins N/SA -.014

SEATTLE-
Hill A/SA -.021 WON*****
Davison I/S -.254

Cry AA/SA -.019 WON
Method B/SA -.002

SONOMA-
Rayburn I/SA -.009 WON*****
Stewart J/SA -.013

DENVER-
Holzman AA/SA -.049 WON
Neugebauer D/SA -.032

BRAINERD-
Rennquist F/SA -.037 WON
Line J/SA -.003

Bredemus B/SA -.057 WON
DeMenge E/SA -.025

DALLAS-
Hidalgo Sr. D/SA -.012 WON
Bannister F/SA -.010

READING-
Massafra E/SA -.007 WON*****
Sepanek I/SA -.023

The wins with the stars beside them de-notes the faster car red lit the least amount. So we have 19 races and if the worst red light rule was in effect, 14 cars would have advanced to the next round because they were the better driver up front. Instead, they went home. Of these races, the won who benifitted the most by not having the worst red light rule was Kevin Cradduck. His round 3 redlight was negated and he went on to runner-up. Good job Kevin! Hope you found this interesting. Danny

And how many of the faster cars that went red and benefited saw the other guy go red and just went ahead and left?

I don't remember if I asked Kevin if he knew Edmond went red. Maybe I'll remember to ask him tomorrow night in the shop.