2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes

[novassdude]

Originally Posted by bill dedman

Some things to ponder...

1. The worse red light rule would hardly ever come into play, as that is a rare situation (worse red light by the second car to leave,) Most of the time, it would go totally unnoticed.

"

Since this rule change wiould have so little effect lets let NHRA worry about all the screwed up things that do effect alot of people.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by novassdude

Since this rule change wiould have so little effect lets let NHRA worry about all the screwed up things that do effect alot of people.

Perish the thought.

It's an inequity, either perceived or real, and all inequities, no matter how small, whether real or perceived, must be remedied, life must be made fair, it's an imperative.

After all, there are no bigger or more important issues in NHRA, or class racing, than this one. Especially if you aren't even racing in a class.

[Danny Ashley]

Bill says that the worst redlight rule would hardly ever come into play, as this is a rare situation and most of the time would go totally unnoticed. So I decided to see how many times this has occured at National events this year in Stock. Listed below are the events and which races were involved:
POMONA-
Denysenko C/SA -.007
Totaro B/SA -.021 WON

Irving O/SA -.033
Wong F/SA -.044 WON

GAINSVILLE-
King E/SA -.032
Feist B/S -.052 WON

Freeman V/SA -.023
Kenny A/SA -.052 WON

Hidalgo D/SA -.021 WON
Parker H/SA -.008

ST.LOUIS-
Cradduck AA/SA -.010 WON
Richardson C/SA -.003

ATLANTA-
Campbell R/SA -.003
Robbins H/SA -.032 WON

BRISTOL-
Bennett D/SA -.017 WON
Marshall G/SA -.009

Faulk C/SA -.087 WON*****
Livingston J/SA -.135

Mattingly C/SA -.013 WON*****
Beeler G/S -.500

Miller E/SA -.023 WON
Robbins N/SA -.014

SEATTLE-
Hill A/SA -.021 WON*****
Davison I/S -.254

Cry AA/SA -.019 WON
Method B/SA -.002

SONOMA-
Rayburn I/SA -.009 WON*****
Stewart J/SA -.013

DENVER-
Holzman AA/SA -.049 WON
Neugebauer D/SA -.032

BRAINERD-
Rennquist F/SA -.037 WON
Line J/SA -.003

Bredemus B/SA -.057 WON
DeMenge E/SA -.025

DALLAS-
Hidalgo Sr. D/SA -.012 WON
Bannister F/SA -.010

READING-
Massafra E/SA -.007 WON*****
Sepanek I/SA -.023

The wins with the stars beside them de-notes the faster car red lit the least amount. So we have 19 races and if the worst red light rule was in effect, 14 cars would have advanced to the next round because they were the better driver up front. Instead, they went home. Of these races, the won who benifitted the most by not having the worst red light rule was Kevin Cradduck. His round 3 redlight was negated and he went on to runner-up. Good job Kevin! Hope you found this interesting. Danny

[KingReptile]

That rule would of put in the finals at least 3 or 4 times ...I'm all for it !!!

[Jeff Lee]

Originally Posted by Danny Ashley

Bill says that the worst redlight rule would hardly ever come into play, as this is a rare situation and most of the time would go totally unnoticed. So I decided to see how many times this has occured at National events this year in Stock. Listed below are the events and which races were involved:
POMONA-
Denysenko C/SA -.007
Totaro B/SA -.021 WON

Irving O/SA -.033
Wong F/SA -.044 WON

GAINSVILLE-
King E/SA -.032
Feist B/S -.052 WON

Freeman V/SA -.023
Kenny A/SA -.052 WON

Hidalgo D/SA -.021 WON
Parker H/SA -.008

ST.LOUIS-
Cradduck AA/SA -.010 WON
Richardson C/SA -.003

ATLANTA-
Campbell R/SA -.003
Robbins H/SA -.032 WON

BRISTOL-
Bennett D/SA -.017 WON
Marshall G/SA -.009

Faulk C/SA -.087 WON*****
Livingston J/SA -.135

Mattingly C/SA -.013 WON*****
Beeler G/S -.500

Miller E/SA -.023 WON
Robbins N/SA -.014

SEATTLE-
Hill A/SA -.021 WON*****
Davison I/S -.254

Cry AA/SA -.019 WON
Method B/SA -.002

SONOMA-
Rayburn I/SA -.009 WON*****
Stewart J/SA -.013

DENVER-
Holzman AA/SA -.049 WON
Neugebauer D/SA -.032

BRAINERD-
Rennquist F/SA -.037 WON
Line J/SA -.003

Bredemus B/SA -.057 WON
DeMenge E/SA -.025

DALLAS-
Hidalgo Sr. D/SA -.012 WON
Bannister F/SA -.010

READING-
Massafra E/SA -.007 WON*****
Sepanek I/SA -.023

The wins with the stars beside them de-notes the faster car red lit the least amount. So we have 19 races and if the worst red light rule was in effect, 14 cars would have advanced to the next round because they were the better driver up front. Instead, they went home. Of these races, the won who benifitted the most by not having the worst red light rule was Kevin Cradduck. His round 3 redlight was negated and he went on to runner-up. Good job Kevin! Hope you found this interesting. Danny

What percentage does this represent in ALL ROUNDS of Stock National event competition in 2010?
My guess is it isn't squat.

[Dgal]

There are lies, damn lies, and statistics. I bet you are right that it is a very small percentage of all rounds, but I bet it is a much larger percentage of rounds that at least one car went red.

That is like saying that the number of double breakouts would be a small percentage of total stocker rounds, but it is a much larger percentage of rounds that had at least one breakout. See my point?

I can see the argument for the worst red light looses just like the worst breakout looses. It would make the starting line as even a playing field as the finish line.

Don

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Danny Ashley

Bill says that the worst redlight rule would hardly ever come into play, as this is a rare situation and most of the time would go totally unnoticed. So I decided to see how many times this has occured at National events this year in Stock. Listed below are the events and which races were involved:
POMONA-
Denysenko C/SA -.007
Totaro B/SA -.021 WON

Irving O/SA -.033
Wong F/SA -.044 WON

GAINSVILLE-
King E/SA -.032
Feist B/S -.052 WON

Freeman V/SA -.023
Kenny A/SA -.052 WON

Hidalgo D/SA -.021 WON
Parker H/SA -.008

ST.LOUIS-
Cradduck AA/SA -.010 WON
Richardson C/SA -.003

ATLANTA-
Campbell R/SA -.003
Robbins H/SA -.032 WON

BRISTOL-
Bennett D/SA -.017 WON
Marshall G/SA -.009

Faulk C/SA -.087 WON*****
Livingston J/SA -.135

Mattingly C/SA -.013 WON*****
Beeler G/S -.500

Miller E/SA -.023 WON
Robbins N/SA -.014

SEATTLE-
Hill A/SA -.021 WON*****
Davison I/S -.254

Cry AA/SA -.019 WON
Method B/SA -.002

SONOMA-
Rayburn I/SA -.009 WON*****
Stewart J/SA -.013

DENVER-
Holzman AA/SA -.049 WON
Neugebauer D/SA -.032

BRAINERD-
Rennquist F/SA -.037 WON
Line J/SA -.003

Bredemus B/SA -.057 WON
DeMenge E/SA -.025

DALLAS-
Hidalgo Sr. D/SA -.012 WON
Bannister F/SA -.010

READING-
Massafra E/SA -.007 WON*****
Sepanek I/SA -.023

The wins with the stars beside them de-notes the faster car red lit the least amount. So we have 19 races and if the worst red light rule was in effect, 14 cars would have advanced to the next round because they were the better driver up front. Instead, they went home. Of these races, the won who benifitted the most by not having the worst red light rule was Kevin Cradduck. His round 3 redlight was negated and he went on to runner-up. Good job Kevin! Hope you found this interesting. Danny

And how many of the faster cars that went red and benefited saw the other guy go red and just went ahead and left?

I don't remember if I asked Kevin if he knew Edmond went red. Maybe I'll remember to ask him tomorrow night in the shop.

[bill dedman]

Thanks, Danny; that was a lot of work, and very interesting. Alan is right, though; lots of faster cars will just leave before their green light comes on if they see red in the other lane. But, we have no way of knowing how many. To my way of thinking, since nobody seems to be able to come up with a good, logical, legitimate reason NOT to change it, I'd say if it's even ONE INSTANCE of somebody losing a round to a worse red light offender, that's one too many... because it's totally unnecessary.

If you have a flawed system, you live with it if there's no way to change it (like was the case in 1963), but when a fix comes available, does it make any kind of sense NOT to fix it just because there are other, more pressing problems? Can NHRA multi-task??? Can they SINGLE-TASK??? LOL!!!

This red light rule is not an important issue on the level of the idiotic AHFS, nor the absurd horsepower factors of the blown Mustangs, and the DP cars, but it's something they could change while they're THINKING ABOUT the bigger problems.

If someone can tell me a good reason just to leave it alone, I'd sure like to hear it. So far, I haven't heard one. Of course, since this procedural change won't make NHRA a red cent, it very likely will never happen.

Thanks for listening.

[Jeff Lee]

I'm pretty used to having the faster car (when I have my car running at least), and I'll say once I see a red light in the other lane my concentration is broke and I just let it fly. My thought is "yipee" and I don't really care about a reaction time at that point.
One point that hasn't been brought up about this. If you demand a worst red light rule then you need to block the tree from your opponents view all the way past the red light.
But for the record, I'm adamantly against any such proposal.

Last question - Of those wanting this rule, how many are the same ones that bitch about changing the rules all the time? My guess it's a significant amount.
That being the case (my assumption), what other rule can I propose while your at it?

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lee

I'm pretty used to having the faster car (when I have my car running at least), and I'll say once I see a red light in the other lane my concentration is broke and I just let it fly. My thought is "yipee" and I don't really care about a reaction time at that point.

Jeff, having made a "career" out of leaving first (usually by a bunch) and not really wanting NHRA to change any more rules (I'm against first or worst RL) I've just gotta ask you, unless you're giving away one hell of a head start, what are you doing looking at the other side of the tree? You SHOULD be concentrating damned hard on YOUR side!
BTW, not just you but everybody should be!