What's wrong with Stock?

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Andys dad

We do not have enough money to stay fast anymore - we have been passed by in four short years by the blower cars

When we bought ours - we knew we could not stay fast without a lot of work.

You guys on here still have not acknowledge the new cars take work to stay fast - I do not need recognition or support.- from anyone on here.

You guys (on here) hope time stands still for another 40 years - it will not.

In the new world cars do not have carburetors or distributors - there is not a single current car produced today which does not have fuel injection and a factory computer.

A novel concept might be to race cars which are available today. That is what the big three think and NHRA does not disagree.

Its about selling cars - not having a way to race nostalgia cars forever and ever and ever.

OK - I am done for today.

Well, you asked for it. Several of us, 6 years ago, warned everyone that the new expensive cars would have their combinations made obsolete every 2-3 years at best. All any factory has to do is draw up a new engine combination on paper and get NHRA to approve it with a nice new soft factor. They don't have to build the engines, they don't even have to sell new race cars with the engines in them. Which is exactly why they should be Factory Experimental cars and not Stock Eliminator cars. Because the factories are experimenting.

It has absolutely nothing to do with fuel injection, distributorless ignition, and computers. Those have been in Stock Eliminator for 20 years. No one cares about that. That is not what makes the new cars perform.

What they DO care about is over 0.600" lift roller cams, 1000+ CFM throttle bodies, tunnel ram intakes, and what amounts to CNC ported heads (they CNC port a head, pull a mold, and cast the new head). None of which have ever been in Stock Eliminator before, and very little of which, if any, is seen on production street cars. Again, these are Factory Experimental cars. These are near Super Stock engines running in Stock Eliminator, and many of them starting out factored at or below what the older cars are factored at, with the older car having half the horsepower potential.

It has everything to do with the factory race cars not even being close to the street legal new cars for sale.

You want to make this about selling new production cars? Fine. Race new production street cars. Let's see how it works. I'm all for it. By all means, bring on the new production street cars.

The fact is, we're racing cars and combinations that were sold and driven on the street, against cars and combinations that would never, and could never, be sold for street use. I don't have a problem racing an old 427 powered 69 Camaro against a 2014 Camaro with a Stock Eliminator prepared engine based on the engine that comes in it when you drive it off the showroom floor and buy license plates to drive on the street. What I do have a problem with is racing an old 427 powered 69 Camaro against a new 2014 Camaro with a built for racing engine, that is almost as radical as my 396/375 Super Stock engine, that cannot be sold in a new car to drive on the street. Especially when it is factored almost the same as our old Camaro.

Now, not only do the factory race cars get soft factors and get to run in Stock Eliminator, they now get their own set of rules, and an AHFS waiver, so they can qualify as far under the index as they want with no penalty, while the older cars get none of the above.

[Mark Yacavone]

Alan,
15 to 1 compression in a 2014 engine
LOL

[Bob Mulry]

Ron, Ron, Ron

How far under could a 2014 Camaro be with an almost 50 year old L-88 rated at 225 Horsepower?????

It's not FI, Blowers, Overhead Cams, 4 Valves per cylinder it's the rating that the Factory puts on these engines with the blessing of NHRA

Some people get it. Some people don't.........

Being fast is a relative thing....
Is a B/SA car that runs 10.90 fast or is it an M/SA car that runs 11.65 ???
I think you know the correct answer...

Bob

[Lee Valentine]

Andy,s Dad it's not about old and new it's about all of us running under the same rules. I ran one of the first F.I. cars in our area and took some B.S. about it so I know how that goes , but I was running by the same rules.

[RKelliher]

I agree that the new cars should be put in either a fs of fx class but only run in ss catagory. they could be set like the modified class super stocks,afx,bfx,etc.and not be in any other class. this is because they do not qualify for regular classes in stock or superstock. this would be the fairest way to handle this problem and would boost the superstock numbers.

[Andys dad]

OK I am up -- got the kind of responses I expected. from the same three keyboard jockeys.

You guys do not want any change that impacts 40 year old cars.

How in the heck can the rules stand still with all that is going on in performance increases.

I wish we were in our own eliminator - but I do that would stop the whining.

At the end of the day - who really cares - it is not our game - it belongs to NHRA and the "big 3" - like it or not - it is about selling cars - not race cars.

Guys find someone to harp on that really cares - I just decided to break my pact with other late model fast car owners and address you guys - they were right - none of you would ever step up and ever agree with change - to stuck in the past.

Go to NHRA an get the rules changed - so far the old cars have been dismissed (mostly).

Say to NHRA formally what you are saying on here - which does not count.

Or maybe we should stop racing our cars to show our displeasure with how the 40 year old cars have been screwed.

Have a great rest of the holiday.



Ron

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Andys dad

OK I am up -- got the kind of responses I expected. from the same three keyboard jockeys.

You guys do not want any change that impacts 40 year old cars.

How in the heck can the rules stand still with all that is going on in performance increases.

I wish we were in our own eliminator - but I do that would stop the whining.

At the end of the day - who really cares - it is not our game - it belongs to NHRA and the "big 3" - like it or not - it is about selling cars - not race cars.

Guys find someone to harp on that really cares - I just decided to break my pact with other late model fast car owners and address you guys - they were right - none of you would ever step up and ever agree with change - to stuck in the past.

Go to NHRA an get the rules changed - so far the old cars have been dismissed (mostly).

Say to NHRA formally what you are saying on here - which does not count.

Or maybe we should stop racing our cars to show our displeasure with how the 40 year old cars have been screwed.

Have a great rest of the holiday.



Ron

Oh, we agree with change Ron. It is the fact that you want everything changed in your favor that is the problem. You want cars already in the class kicked out so you can have your own playground. The new cars got a free pass with the AHFS, that's the sort of change you want.

The rules could stay the same with no problems. There was zero need to change the rules of Stock Eliminator due to "performance increases". New production street cars could have been listed in the guide and raced with no problems. And then the factory race cars could have been put in their own Factory Experimental class, where they belong.

And yeah, if your store bought "I mortgaged my house and spent my life savings to buy fast" car was in its own class, Factory Experimental, along with the rest of them, the complaining would stop.

You'll excuse me now, it's Labor Day, I have to go labor in my garage to make money to pay for racing parts.

[Andys dad]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Oh, we agree with change Ron. It is the fact that you want everything changed in your favor that is the problem. You want cars already in the class kicked out so you can have your own playground. The new cars got a free pass with the AHFS, that's the sort of change you want.

The rules could stay the same with no problems. There was zero need to change the rules of Stock Eliminator due to "performance increases". New production street cars could have been listed in the guide and raced with no problems. And then the factory race cars could have been put in their own Factory Experimental class, where they belong.

And yeah, if your store bought "I mortgaged my house and spent my life savings to buy fast" car was in its own class, Factory Experimental, along with the rest of them, the complaining would stop.

You'll excuse me now, it's Labor Day, I have to go labor in my garage to make money to pay for racing parts.

You have a habit of miss quoting people on here. We do not run "factory stock" it is a travesty and insult to many of my fellow racers - get your facts straight when you refer to me.

I never asked for a single rule change.

Why don't you busy yourself and your keyboard with letters to NHRA. I am sure if the issues are so egregious they will listen and surely change them. I am happy with whatever rule change you can effect.

If you could take the time to show me where I asked for this - I would really appreciate it.

I consider it an insult when you accuse me of dishonorable decisions – I am entitled to make my own decisions and they have nothing to do with how you think.

If you think for one minute I did this because I have the money or desire to beat up on 40 year old cars - why not see me at a drag race - if you ever go to one - oh and please make it out west - I cannot afford to travel back east.

And Bruce - it is not hollow to step up and spend the necessary money on upgrading to a new car .. it is exhilarating - I did not have anything to do with the rules. It has taken a long time to change my thinking to be competitive with a new car - the trouble is none of you have a clue on how hard it is to make one of these go fast.

You apparently think it does not take rear end gear changes, transmission gear changes, converter changes, tuning changes, valve spring changes, cam shaft changes and many other things, too numerous to mention. It takes way more than money but you do not want to believe that - you think you just spend your way to going fast – that causes me to doubt your racing savvy – spending is rarely the answer – hard work and effort usually nets performance increases.

I am a predictive analyst and studied very careful what I thought was the proper course of action – I never considered easy or money being the answer -now you choose to decide I am some sort of bad person with evil ulterior motives.

Perhaps I should have picked the most out of line 40 year old car and BOUGHT one of those -- that would have been OK – right? Or better yet - follow Larry Hills lead and find a combination that is only out of line …

Please vote (on here) to see if we should abandon our new car in favor of a 40 year old one like we use to run. Have NHRA change the factory stock rules and quite beating up on people who love and are driven by drag racing.

Work for change with NHRA not me – except for Jeff T. - no fast car owners want to endure the insults you guys through around on here instead of working for change with NHRA.

[Chris Hill]

Originally Posted by Andys dad

OK I am up -- got the kind of responses I expected. from the same three keyboard jockeys.

You guys do not want any change that impacts 40 year old cars.

How in the heck can the rules stand still with all that is going on in performance increases.

I wish we were in our own eliminator - but I do that would stop the whining.

At the end of the day - who really cares - it is not our game - it belongs to NHRA and the "big 3" - like it or not - it is about selling cars - not race cars.

Guys find someone to harp on that really cares - I just decided to break my pact with other late model fast car owners and address you guys - they were right - none of you would ever step up and ever agree with change - to stuck in the past.

Go to NHRA an get the rules changed - so far the old cars have been dismissed (mostly).

Say to NHRA formally what you are saying on here - which does not count.

Or maybe we should stop racing our cars to show our displeasure with how the 40 year old cars have been screwed.

Have a great rest of the holiday.



Ron

Ron, I'm not sure your in the "late model fast car owners" club.

Evaluating DRC, your car is too slow to qualify at Indy.

Guess you'll need to buy a Hellcat engine so you can MAYBE go fast again.

[Andys dad]

Originally Posted by Chris Hill

Ron, I'm not sure your in the "late model fast car owners" club.

Evaluating DRC, your car is too slow to qualify at Indy.

Guess you'll need to buy a Hellcat engine so you can MAYBE go fast again.

Guess you will have to learn a little about how to play the game ..you never know how much someone weighs from looking at DRC .. not everyone runs as lite as they can .. we protected our HP .. we would have qualified in Super Stock (the eliminator we chose to run) .. but that is all speculation we were not there.

Since you pay so much attention to DRC .. I guess you knew that we run Super Stock - LMFAO