What's wrong with Stock?

[Pistol Pete]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Well, you asked for it. Several of us, 6 years ago, warned everyone that the new expensive cars would have their combinations made obsolete every 2-3 years at best. All any factory has to do is draw up a new engine combination on paper and get NHRA to approve it with a nice new soft factor. They don't have to build the engines, they don't even have to sell new race cars with the engines in them. Which is exactly why they should be Factory Experimental cars and not Stock Eliminator cars. Because the factories are experimenting.

It has absolutely nothing to do with fuel injection, distributorless ignition, and computers. Those have been in Stock Eliminator for 20 years. No one cares about that. That is not what makes the new cars perform.

What they DO care about is over 0.600" lift roller cams, 1000+ CFM throttle bodies, tunnel ram intakes, and what amounts to CNC ported heads (they CNC port a head, pull a mold, and cast the new head). None of which have ever been in Stock Eliminator before, and very little of which, if any, is seen on production street cars. Again, these are Factory Experimental cars. These are near Super Stock engines running in Stock Eliminator, and many of them starting out factored at or below what the older cars are factored at, with the older car having half the horsepower potential.

It has everything to do with the factory race cars not even being close to the street legal new cars for sale.

You want to make this about selling new production cars? Fine. Race new production street cars. Let's see how it works. I'm all for it. By all means, bring on the new production street cars.

The fact is, we're racing cars and combinations that were sold and driven on the street, against cars and combinations that would never, and could never, be sold for street use. I don't have a problem racing an old 427 powered 69 Camaro against a 2014 Camaro with a Stock Eliminator prepared engine based on the engine that comes in it when you drive it off the showroom floor and buy license plates to drive on the street. What I do have a problem with is racing an old 427 powered 69 Camaro against a new 2014 Camaro with a built for racing engine, that is almost as radical as my 396/375 Super Stock engine, that cannot be sold in a new car to drive on the street. Especially when it is factored almost the same as our old Camaro.

Now, not only do the factory race cars get soft factors and get to run in Stock Eliminator, they now get their own set of rules, and an AHFS waiver, so they can qualify as far under the index as they want with no penalty, while the older cars get none of the above.

Alan, Did you happen to read my post in " Indy Observation " ????
Your post is spot on.
EVERYONE should have the SAME SET OF RULES.

[treekiller]

there is a way that everybody could keep their current junk and all race each other. The traditional guys don't want to change the way things have been for years but look what NHRA is doing to y'all. Have the **** swinging contest in class elims then take out heads ups in eliminations. Everybody has a dial in and a chance no matter who they race. Nobody has to sell anything and car counts probably go through the roof. the new car guys won't be able to stand it and the old car guys are too stubborn to get with the times andunderstand that implementing a rule like that will be the only chance they will ever have against the new cars.

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by Greg Hill

I'm like a lot of people my age or older that have raced for a lot of years. I'm just about done. If it wasn't for my son Andrew I would be done. I sold my car about a month ago, and I will mainly be Andrew's crew chief from now on. Because I have his car in Louisville and he's in Michigan I will probably race his car a few times a year, mainly at combos and one or two opens. I hope this lasts for a few more years for Andrew because he dearly loves it. I wasn't trying to start an argument with this thread but to point out how NHRA and the factories could have integrated the new cars into the sport without hurting people who have supported them for 30 or 40 years. To favor one group over another by an organization that's supposed to provide a level playing field is what really bothers me.

X's a million on this one !!

[Andys dad]

OK I am up -- got the kind of responses I expected. from the same three keyboard jockeys.

You guys do not want any change that impacts 40 year old cars.

How in the heck can the rules stand still with all that is going on in performance increases.

I wish we were in our own eliminator - but I do that would stop the whining.

At the end of the day - who really cares - it is not our game - it belongs to NHRA and the "big 3" - like it or not - it is about selling cars - not race cars.

Guys find someone to harp on that really cares - I just decided to break my pact with other late model fast car owners and address you guys - they were right - none of you would ever step up and ever agree with change - to stuck in the past.

Go to NHRA an get the rules changed - so far the old cars have been dismissed (mostly).

Say to NHRA formally what you are saying on here - which does not count.

Or maybe we should stop racing our cars to show our displeasure with how the 40 year old cars have been screwed.

Have a great rest of the holiday.



Ron

[treekiller]

let me just say I completely understand the lure of putting something together within a certain set of rules and out running a lot of other guys with hard work and dedication and knowledge. Nhra has eliminated that by allowing these new cars which you guys can't compete with those of you who have the older set ups. you simply cannot tell someone that they do not deserve to compete because they cannot afford a 100000 car

[farmco r/sa]

Originally Posted by FED 387

I don't have a gun in the Stock fight but we ran a car in SS for about a year as a SS/BS. When the "factory" SS cars started to show up we decided to not participate in SS.--SO if the factory comes up with a double turbo full out hi compression hi lift camshaft you get the idea "slightly detuned" balls out motor with a hokey HP rating and accepted by NHRA tech as an EXTREMELY limited run factory produced vehicle it's legal---how do you compete with this --YOU CANT unless ya got one yourself--- I think part of the problem here is that you have multiple cubic inch engines in multiple year cars all with the latest hi tech engineering available and supersceded parts weekly with ONE intention ----TO WIN all within the current rules allowed by the association--if they want to run "Stock" they can they are not doing anything illegal but its sorta like a SS car running a Stocker--- the only way to stop this is to either have their own eliminator class much like SS/AH or to factor them correctly--it just aint fair---look what Larry Hill did--- he made them(NHRA tech) look stupid--- he took a V6 pick up truck DIME ROCKET with a blueprinted motor and totally annihilated the index--- so much for the AFHS ---hows that NHRA hp factoring working for you now--- another one shot wonder just blew your AFHS theory out of the water---my 2 cents FED

Did Larry Hill make NHRA tech look stupid????
The way I understand it if there is no data on a
combo nhra starts the combo out at "advertised" H.p.
on all these combo's. what else do they have to go from.
Agreed auto was already rated higher but sticks and auto's are
always separated. The low h.p. rating of 155 from GM.
I am sure they were colluding with larry hill to crush V/S
index some 28 years after production?
"AHFS" will add some 40 ISH H.p. tomorrow morning
and I am sure Larry knew it going into indy....
This will never be a 2 second under deal again.
combo moves to probably top of Q stick for natural class.
Still a great job and congrats to Larry and family.

[Pedigo Perf]

Originally Posted by treekiller

the old car guys are too stubborn to get with the times and understand .

Hey "treekiller" .... what level of investment are you at with your equipment? or do you just go out and kill trees for hire? If you had 100k + (God I hope my wife doesn't get on this site) in your Stocker, and lets say it is a classic muscle car that you personally have a passion for, I bet you wouldn't like the current rules either. It may be easy for someone that isn't invested in a traditional stocker to just dismiss them as obsolete but there are plenty of them out there and they represent American cars at there finest in my opinion.

I am rather tech savvy and have considered building a new car as well, I just don't wan't to make a bracket racer out of my Chevelle just yet.

Tracy Pedigo (real name)
70 Chevelle C/SA (real car - former record holder)

[Pvt Parts]

Originally Posted by Pedigo Perf

So it's buy a "new" car or quit then. That seems to be the message from NHRA as well. Nice

Like or not, that's the message. NHRA has been saying that in one way or another for years. I remember when the GT classes were formed hearing an NHRA official telling Jimmy Bridges "There comes a time to put a race horse out to pasture." The writing was on the wall then. (Early 1990's). Nothing has changed, it's just become more obvious.

[treekiller]

Tracy you misunderstood me. My car is only a high10 second Saturday night bracket car. I think everybody should be allowed to race when I said the old guys are too stubborn I meant that most of them don't want to change the rules and run no heads up in eliminations.

[treekiller]

and by the way I would gladly kill trees for hire if I could. I can barely afford to run my own car. Gene Schmaltz jr