SS/D Thunderbolt in 1969 ?

[Paul Precht]

The original T-bolt factor was 425.

[Adger Smith]

Travis Miller and Wesley could be the NHRA Experts on these questions.
I think they had a lot of dealings with the Ford guys in that time frame including RJ Sledge that won Indy in 1989...in stock with one of the 427 combinations. See how long a memory Travis Miller has on the (fiberglass) issue RJ had....lol

[DeuceCoupe]

Originally Posted by Paul Precht

The original T-bolt factor was 425.

That was Ford's plan - especially with the 1964 LightWeight Galaxie (LWG).
Car Weight 3749
427/425-8v HiRiser 425hp
3749/425=8.82
Ford wanted to run that in A/S=8.70 class
There's even a Downtown Ford ad saying that.

NHRA just laughed & created the AA/S=7.00 class.

Same engine in the T-bolt, which then had to be at least 460hp so
3206/460=6.97
That put the T-bolt into S/S=0.00 class and the LWG into AA/S=7.00 class.

I've just guessed 500hp since books "say" that the LWG was "near the top" of AA/S, so
3749/500=7.49

Now, if we just lower the 427 HiRiser to 450hp (which I've heard was the case in eg 1973) we get
3206/450=7.12 and all the sudden the T-bolt now runs in 1969's SS/D=7.00 class, as the picture shows.

BUT - there's that thing about no fiberglass bodies. Mopar ran a 64 Race Hemi at 69 Indy but it was a steel body car, also in SS/D=7.00. The Hemi was not refactored, the steel body was just heavier.

Convoluted story, that's why I asked!

WHILE I'm at it:
The 69 Indy sheet says Tom Marsh was R/U in SS/D=7.00 class in a
1964 Ford.
Any idea if it was (another) T-Bolt or a LWG?

[427FE]

Originally Posted by DeuceCoupe

BUT - there's that thing about no fiberglass bodies.

Why? The minimum of 100 cars were built. The fenders and hood were glass and very few received glass doors.

[DeuceCoupe]

Originally Posted by 427FE

Why? The minimum of 100 cars were built. The fenders and hood were glass and very few received glass doors.

Well I thought I'd heard fiberglass body parts other than hoods were banned after 1964, which made sense since both Ford and Mopar stopped running their 1964 S/S cars. Maybe not then.

So Ford probably just stopped running the T-bolt after 1964 because it wasnt competitive any more?

And then, if the 427 HiRiser WAS factored down to 450hp for 1969, that moved the T-Bolt down into SS/D=7.00 class
3206/450=7.12
So it appeared after a long hiatus from 1965-66-67-68?

This would have put the 64 Gal LWG into SS/F=8.00 class at
3749/450=8.33
But, I dont see any there, at least no winners.

So if fiberglass was legal all those years, what happened to the 64 Hemi Mopars? They were lighter than the 65 A990 Hemi's but the 64's just disappeared, like the 64 T-Bolts.

I was a little young back then so dont remember this stuff!

EDIT:
Ok I re-discovered a partial answer.
In 1965 & 1966, S/S had to be at least 8 lb per CID, meaning the 1964 Race Hemi's and T-bolts were banned. Too light.
That's why the 1965 A990 weighed *exactly* 3408 - to meet that 3408/426=8.00 NHRA requirement.

In 1967, the same rule applied but only to SS/A.
But the 64 Race Hemi and 64 T-Bolt fell into SS/A, so they were banned for that year too.

In 1968, same rule, SS/A minimum 8 lb/CID, but the 64 Race Hemi and T-Bolt fell into SS/B=6.00-6.99, so I guess they could've legally run?
Sure, but they'd both be up against the new Race Hemi Dart/Cuda, so no point.

For 1969, SS/C=6.50 which let the 64 Race Hemi's avoid the 68 Dart/Cuda but still run, and they did.
And, with the T-bolt 427 HiRiser factored down to 450hp (apparently), they could run in SS/D=7.00 so they did.

Just to complete the narrative:
Prior to 1969, I believe the 427 HiRiser had to be factored to 490-500hp.
Why?
Well it didnt affect anything in 1964. The T-bolt ran in S/S and the LWG ran in AA/S=7.00 as long as the 427HR was factored at 460hp to 500hp.

But the May 1967 NHRA records show Mike Schmitt's LWG holding both ends of SS/BA=7.00-7.69 with 11.66 and 121.78.
To be all the way up into SS/BA, the 427HR had to be factored to at least 490hp so then 3749/490=7.65. Any factoring below that will drop the LWG into SS/CA=7.70-8.69 class.

So I'm concluding the 427HR was factored at 490-500hp up thru 1968, then down to 450hp for 1969 which is why the T-Bolt re-appeared for one last year. The 64 LWG could compete in 1967-68 in the SS/7.00 class but would be up against the Ro23/Wo23 Mopars and 427MR T-Wedge Fairlanes and just wasn't up to that. So they disappeared.

OK well if THAT all makes sense, thanks for helping with my thought process.

"It was my understanding, that there would be no math"
- - Chevy Chase as Gerald R Ford, 1976 presidential debate on SNL

[427FE]

Ford seems to have concentrated more on the sizzling hot FX classes after 64. Along with the introduction of the SOHC, the HR was kind of forgotten about. The 64 galaxie LW had good success in AA even into the year 1966. Pretty much dropped off after that.

[FireSale]

64 Fairlane Light Weight was/is allowed fiberglass fenders and hood. Bumpers may be aluminum. They tried fiberglass bumpers and NHRA nixed that. From the 2021 book a 427 HiRise with stock heads and manual trans has a SS hp rating of 466 and a weight of 3206. That works out to a 6.87 lbs/hp. By a 1969 book, that would be just shy of the min 7.00 for SS/D and could be made up with weight. The bracket was 7.00-7.49. 1964's were the oldest cars allowed in SS in 1969.
My references are the current book and this site for the 1969 book:
http://www.superstockamx.com/page82.php

[DeuceCoupe]

Originally Posted by FireSale

64 Fairlane Light Weight was/is allowed fiberglass fenders and hood. Bumpers may be aluminum. They tried fiberglass bumpers and NHRA nixed that. From the 2021 book a 427 HiRise with stock heads and manual trans has a SS hp rating of 466 and a weight of 3206. That works out to a 6.87 lbs/hp. By a 1969 book, that would be just shy of the min 7.00 for SS/D and could be made up with weight. The bracket was 7.00-7.49. 1964's were the oldest cars allowed in SS in 1969.
My references are the current book and this site for the 1969 book:
http://www.superstockamx.com/page82.php

Dale,
Thanks for that.
I only have rule books thru 1968, when you couldn't in general "adjust" the car weight like you can today.
Are you saying the weight could be "adjusted" in 1969?
I tried that link but my Norton says its a known dangerous link so I didn't want to go there. Not that Norton is always right.

If you have time to look at my last post on pg1 see what you think of it - everything seems to make sense if the glass fenders were allowed which it seems they were. I think what i read was that for 1965-up CARS, they had to be all steel (except the hood) so that's why Mopar did the A990 in all steel.

I just wondered why the T-bolts all disappeared in 1965-66-67-68 but I think I got it on my page 1 post here.

I'd sure like to get that 1969 Rule book. I will send you a PM
EDIT: Well PM doesnt seem to work, maybe it's my setup or Norton or something. In any case I got the 69 rule book from that HAMB link so thanks.

[bigshow2966]

Originally Posted by FireSale

64 Fairlane Light Weight was/is allowed fiberglass fenders and hood. Bumpers may be aluminum.

In the video on Ray Pacquet's (sp) car it shows his still has the fiberglass bumper under the aluminum one.

[tommy d]

Mike Ulrey was a walking Ford encyclopedia on Ford cars and parts. So much was lost when died like the info on this car. I've talked to the surviving Ulreys and they say this was a short term deal between Mike and a guy from Dayton Ohio. They don't remember much about it. I had always assumed that he had entered their 66 liteweight in SS/D but ran this car instead. I was wrong.