New AHFS

[B Parker]

As long as there has been Stock and Super Stock there has always been combo's that are underrated. This has not changed in the last 50 years. In Division One if you look at a Lucas Oil race that has about 100 cars how many are under factored? My guess would be 4 or 5. Most of these are the newer ones that only have other new cars in their class. So, we make a rule change that could possibly affect a large part of the field because of only 4 or 5 percent of the cars. Why? Also helping to kill what I always thought was a performance-based class. If you race a class that is not that populated, and the odds are great that you will not see a heads up run this will probably not have much of an effect on you. Unless you have someone that races your combo that is into the performance. But for those of us that race combo's that have several cars in our class and have a good chance of racing someone heads up in the eliminator it could have a big effect on us. James Boyce, I don't get your post. I looked your name up and the first race that came up you qualified with a run of 1.176 under in L/SA this year. Are you saying you had it on kill for qualifying? Is your car underrated? Billy my car gets to use parts that NHRA approved (not me). This is the year 2021 and I for one don't want to go back to where an A car runs mid 11"s. But if we did, I still would have one of the faster ones. It has nothing to do with the parts. I care about the performance side of Stock and stay awake nights trying to come up with ways of making my car go faster. So, what really makes a combo underrated? Is it how fast it goes? How about if you take a car from a bone yard. Don't build the engine or trany to the NHRA rules of today. PLay with the tune up, gears, convertors and ect. Now you run .5 under. I would have to say that the combo is underacted. Just no one cared enough to build one using today's rules. BP

[SDT1DYI]

Originally Posted by west coast

Wow you guys are all a bunch of negitive Nancy's typing on your key boards like chicken little running around yelling the sky is falling. You all complain about the AHFS not working, when NHRA makes a change to make it work better to get underfactor combo's inline(which they created when they factor new cars) or they created with a stroke of a key board like the ford 302. which happened years ago and most of those combo's can still run -1.50 under. If it were not for Mike Graham the 302 would still be a -2.00 under combo. The change to the AHFS will only affect a very small percentage of the cars that race in stock. So all you Karen's can bash me now.

So James I went back and looked at the Qualifing Sheet at the Sept Divisonal at Boise. 37 Cars in Stock. 13 of the cars were more than 1 under. You were # 3. The 18th qualifer was more than .950 under so even with the recent changes to the Mineshaft rule it's still going to happen.
It could be time to adjust the indexes as NHRA did several years ago.


Steve Teeter STK/SS 620

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by B Parker

Billy my car gets to use parts that NHRA approved (not me).

How about if you take a car from a bone yard. Don't build the engine or trany to the NHRA rules of today. PLay with the tune up, gears, convertors and ect. Now you run .5 under. I would have to say that the combo is underacted. Just no one cared enough to build one using today's rules. BP

Barry, we're all "playing a game". Do you feel that your combo should still be rated at 375 HP even after admitting that you can build one without using a single "stock" part?
I don't feel like any of my combos should be burdened with an index hit just because I was smart enough to build one. We're all "playing a game". If you don't like "playing a game" in the style that you're "playing" it then please feel free to "play" it the way that I do. Don't admonish me for "playing" it differently than you do.
I've never requested a HP reduction on any of my combos although they have gotten reductions from other Racers requests. I won't "play" that part of the "game". When I start on a combo, I know what I'm getting into and what I have to work with. Did you not do the same?
We're all "playing a game". Some choose to do it differently than others.

[B Parker]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Barry, we're all "playing a game". Do you feel that your combo should still be rated at 375 HP even after admitting that you can build one without using a single "stock" part?
I don't feel like any of my combos should be burdened with an index hit just because I was smart enough to build one. We're all "playing a game". If you don't like "playing a game" in the style that you're "playing" it then please feel free to "play" it the way that I do. Don't admonish me for "playing" it differently than you do.
I've never requested a HP reduction on any of my combos although they have gotten reductions from other Racers requests. I won't "play" that part of the "game". When I start on a combo, I know what I'm getting into and what I have to work with. Did you not do the same?
We're all "playing a game". Some choose to do it differently than others.

Billy I wasn't trying to admonish you. My point was what makes a combo underrated? Is it just a number and what is that number under what weather conditions? We all have been playing the game for several years. I'm tired of doing it. Extra oil, extra weight, timing backed off, short shifting and ect. Now with this new rule we have to play it even more. I'd love to be able to go back to the way it was years ago where you ran your car close to how fast it could go. We could argue about the parts I'm able to use but that should be in a different post. I also never asked for a HP change to any combo I've run nor any aftermarket parts. I really didn't want the car I have. Never been a fan of the 70 Camaro's but at 20 grand the price was too good to pass up. I believe most combo's on kill that have been worked on under great weather conditions can run 1.20 plus under.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by B Parker

This is the year 2021 and I for one don't want to go back to where an A car runs mid 11"s. But if we did, I still would have one of the faster ones. It has nothing to do with the parts.

Just no one cared enough to build one using today's rules. BP

While I'm on a roll Barry, would you build your combo using ALL of the Original "Stock" parts today? And just what rules have changed? What has changed is the NHRA's acceptance of "aftermarket and replacement" parts for certain combos. Combos like yours BUT not ALL combos. I've got 4 combos in my garage at this time and there isn't a single "aftermarket and replacement" part approved for ANY of them. The rules have changed allowing nothing other than simple pieces that aren't worth a thing, not like heads, intakes and carbs. I'm basically working with what was available when A cars were running mid elevens. We're all "playing a game" but the rules change for some and not for others. Right now, the rules have changed (AHFS) and you don't like the changes so you want to lower the indexes. I don't like all of the "aftermarket and replacement" parts that you and others have gotten.

[B Parker]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

While I'm on a roll Barry, would you build your combo using ALL of the Original "Stock" parts today? And just what rules have changed? What has changed is the NHRA's acceptance of "aftermarket and replacement" parts for certain combos. Combos like yours BUT not ALL combos. I've got 4 combos in my garage at this time and there isn't a single "aftermarket and replacement" part approved for ANY of them. The rules have changed allowing nothing other than simple pieces that aren't worth a thing, not like heads, intakes and carbs. I'm basically working with what was available when A cars were running mid elevens. We're all "playing a game" but the rules change for some and not for others. Right now, the rules have changed (AHFS) and you don't like the changes so you want to lower the indexes. I don't like all of the "aftermarket and replacement" parts that you and others have gotten.

Billy this isn't what this thread is about. I would be more than happy to address your issues with aftermarket parts that NHRA allows in Stock eliminator today. Just start a new thread. BP

[Billy Nees]

Barry, I didn't bring up the replacement parts, you did.
You then brought up my underfactored combo that doesn't have any replacement parts and then the subject of lowering the indexes came up. Not by you.

[B Parker]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Barry, I didn't bring up the replacement parts, you did.
You then brought up my underfactored combo that doesn't have any replacement parts and then the subject of lowering the indexes came up. Not by you.

Billy, I don't wish to get into this with you in this thread. It doesn't belong here. Thats why I asked you twice now to start a new one. So please if you wish to go down this road start a new thread and leave this one about NHRA's latest rule change to the AHFS

[west coast]

Steve if we adjust the indexs that affects everyone, doesnt fix underrated combo's. Steve do you think my car is under rated for a fox body mustang since you owned one years ago?

Barry I see you ran more than -1.00 under 3 times this last year. Do you consider your car under rated? Yes i went -1.17 under at Boise and am damm pround of it, was not on kill did my normal routine warm up, no ice, my normal tune up and weight. I dont think my car is under rated. Look at other foxbody mustangs only a few others are fast.

Let me see if i can explain this to you with this example then you tell me what you think.
So a 70 camaro looks like it can A,B,C. You are running A. So when a 2015 camaro get some more HP and cant run B anymore they will be in A with you.
Can you run with one of these?
Do you think it is an under rated combo?
Would you go to B to stay away from them?

Barry I am very much like you, I am always thinking of new ways to make my car go faster. I work on my stuff to make it fast. I run the test day before the divisional race and put more runs on it that day than I do the rest of the weekend. Most test days I have plans on what to test and usually make over 10 runs that day.

[B Parker]

Originally Posted by west coast

Steve if we adjust the indexs that affects everyone, doesnt fix underrated combo's. Steve do you think my car is under rated for a fox body mustang since you owned one years ago?

Barry I see you ran more than -1.00 under 3 times this last year. Do you consider your car under rated? Yes i went -1.17 under at Boise and am damm pround of it, was not on kill did my normal routine warm up, no ice, my normal tune up and weight. I dont think my car is under rated. Look at other foxbody mustangs only a few others are fast.

Let me see if i can explain this to you with this example then you tell me what you think.
So a 70 camaro looks like it can A,B,C. You are running A. So when a 2015 camaro get some more HP and cant run B anymore they will be in A with you.
Can you run with one of these?
Do you think it is an under rated combo?
Would you go to B to stay away from them?

Barry I am very much like you, I am always thinking of new ways to make my car go faster. I work on my stuff to make it fast. I run the test day before the divisional race and put more runs on it that day than I do the rest of the weekend. Most test days I have plans on what to test and usually make over 10 runs that day.

James you should be proud of that run. It's a he## of a pass. No, I don't think you should get HP. Just wanted to point out to you that a lot of cars under good conditions can run close to or faster than 1.20. Take a look at the 1970 402/375 hp Nova. Now rated at 415. Just because of a heads up run in good air. Should the car be rated 15 HP more than the 1970 Camaro. This change is going to make it easier for any combo in a popular class to get HP not just the underrated ones. The 2015 Camaro's are faster than my car. There are a lot of A/SA cars in Div one. If I catch a few of them during the year I could end up getting HP long before the 2015 Camaro's putting me even further behind. BP