Joe Sorenson

[Sean Cour]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

But the car has to be an SS to use the 350/300.
At least I'm glad that they changed the heads.
Must be a "west coast" rulebook thing. ;-)

NHRA stopped Joe at the scales during the divisional and went over the car. Joe has a order form from GM stating you COULD order a non SS with a 350/300 combination.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Sean Cour

Joe has a letter from GM stating you COULD order a non SS with a 350/300 combination.

Oh I'd LOVE to see a copy of that letter and who signed it! I'm sure Jerry Mcniesh and about a hundred different Racers in Stock and SS would too!
I'm calling BS on that one.
It didn't come from the same guy who came up with the paperwork for the 780 Holleys and Edelbrock intakes on the AMCs did it?

[Cglrcng]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Oh I'd LOVE to see a copy of that letter and who signed it! I'm sure Jerry Mcniesh and about a hundred different Racers in Stock and SS would too!
I'm calling BS on that one.
It didn't come from the same guy who came up with the paperwork for the 780 Holleys and Edelbrock intakes on the AMCs did it?

I have to fully agree with Billy on that 1...The information must be provided directly to NHRA by the MFG. I also have the original 1984 Dodge Daytona factory showroom brochure published concerning all 3 models available that year and that I personally picked up at the same time we picked up the car I am driving that has all 3 shipping weights and other full specifications listed, and they are different than listed in the NHRA classification guide and they would not accept that data from me and adjust the actual shipping weight. And it would make an actual natural class fit difference. My combo was never shipped as light as the guide shows period. Data published elsewhere online also verifies the brochure specs and weights too. But, they flat out refuse to even look at the evidence and state they are not adjusting the shipping weight.

I am not stating I know anything about Camaro hoods or engine combos here at all, just pointing out the inconsistent ways NHRA deals with documentation and evidence, specs.

If the evidence exists look at it in all cases and rule on it, then publish it for all to use. But, that takes work. Laziness and economics rules the day these days it seems. Fairness to all takes a back seat.

[Mark Yacavone]

First off Congrats to Joe and Hal
Well deserved for two guys who actually assemble their own engines and transmissions.

About the hood }
I have a good friend who bought a used Camaro (68, not 69). It was ordered with a 295 / 350 engine, Powerglide trans, column shifter, bench seat, and small dog dish style hubcaps .
It was badged as a SS car, but sure didn't look it from a few feet away. .
Anyway , it DID have the raised hood with the chrome simulated ports inserts on it.
I wonder if the original buyer knew you could un-order the heavier SS hood?
Again this was a 68 car. Interesting !
Also , we raced a 68 Chevy II ,that was ordered as a big block car ,with rubber floor mats . We ran it as a 350 /295 PG combo. Of course it had to have the SS hood on it.

As a matter of fact, as long as I've been racing, which is more than a few years, anything that came from GM @ 295 horse or more had to have a SS hood , or cowl induction on Camaros

Again, very interesting ...Who knew?

[Billy Nees]

Mark, again I'm done with the hood on Joe's car BUT the GM archives says differently although it IS kinda confusing.

[GTS340]

How many 68-69 GTS darts came with a flat hood new and how many run in NHRA stock eliminator? I guess it isn't about the hood. Too many different GM combos for myself to know.

Paul H

[GUMP]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Mark, again I'm done with the hood on Joe's car BUT the GM archives says differently although it IS kinda confusing.

A few years ago I approached our General Motors guy about the whole 1969 Camaro hood deal. He wouldn't accept that most Z-28s didn't come with a cowl hood!!

I think that the only way to prove hood availability in both the 255 and 300 combinations is to find a real invoice for a car equipped the way a competitor is claiming.

[Dan Bennett]

Originally Posted by GUMP

A few years ago I approached our General Motors guy about the whole 1969 Camaro hood deal. He wouldn't accept that most Z-28s didn't come with a cowl hood!!

I think that the only way to prove hood availability in both the 255 and 300 combinations is to find a real invoice for a car equipped the way a competitor is claiming.

In my collector car days, I owned a nicely optioned 69 Z. It's been a long time, but somehow I remember the cowl hood option number was stamped onto the firewall trim tag. Problem is, GM was not consistent throughout their plants. Mine was built in Norwood. And as I learned from the collector arena, a whole lot of people would change or even counterfeit the tags to get the car the way they wanted and still claim originality.

As for the GM guy thinking that cowl hoods were plentiful, this was when I was most active on the streets and at the track. The Z28 was very popular by then and I saw a lot of them. In my experience, less than half I saw had the cowl option. Remember, these cars were being bought by young guys who barely had the money for one and it also wasn't even a full year option.


Came back to add: I was seriously into restoration and research. The only "ringer" hood I ever ran across with documentation from the era it was built was on 67 Corvettes. During the production run, some idiot left a screwdriver (used to remove the hood from the mold) in the small block flat hood mold and then closed it, ruining the mold. Those took a lot of time and effort to make and GM didn't have a spare. So there were some 67 327 Corvettes that came off the line with the big block raised hoods.

And the AMC parts numbers. In 69, I owned a 68 AMX. At every AMC dealer parts department, there was a supplement to the parts book which contained performance parts. It was called Group 19. The intake and carb were definitely listed there with an AMC part number. Yes, not production line but we all know what's happened with replacement parts these days.

[Mike Pearson]

[QUOTE=Mark Yacavone;705455]First off Congrats to Joe and Hal
Well deserved for two guys who actually assemble their own engines and transmissions.

About the hood }
I have a good friend who bought a used Camaro (68, not 69). It was ordered with a 295 / 350 engine, Powerglide trans, column shifter, bench seat, and small dog dish style hubcaps .
It was badged as a SS car, but sure didn't look it from a few feet away. .
Anyway , it DID have the raised hood with the chrome simulated ports inserts on it.
I wonder if the original buyer knew you could un-order the heavier SS hood?
Again this was a 68 car. Interesting !
Also , we raced a 68 Chevy II ,that was ordered as a big block car ,with rubber floor mats . We ran it as a 350 /295 PG combo. Of course it had to have the SS hood on it.

As a matter of fact, as long as I've been racing, which is more than a few years, anything that came from GM @ 295 horse or more had to have a SS hood , or cowl induction on Camaros

Again, very interesting ...Who knew?[/QUOTE

I race a 1968 Camaro. I have a 350/295 engine and a 327/275 engine. NHRA tech told me that I had to have the SS hood when running the 350. I could and do run the 327 with the SS hood or I could run a flat hood with the 327. That was many years ago. Maybe they changed their interpretation now days. I have never actually weighed them to see how much lighter the flat hood is compared to the SS hood. 67 and 68 can not run a cowl hood. I tried that and was rejected.

[L.Fite]

As far as 68 Camaro with cowl hood...
I understand that there was exactly ONE 68 built with the cowl hood...
And it was a GM demo/display car...

Fact or fiction...

And cowl hoods on 69s was not as many as one would think percentage wise...
Pace cars, COPOs, SOME Z-28, and SOME SS cars...?

Also as far as weight goes...
The SS hood and cowl hood have to weigh near the same as they both use the same hoodhinge spring and the flat hoods used a lighter spring...
And I have no idea about actual weights either...

And at one time didn't you have to run the correct SS hood for the year model?...
Seems I remember they used to be picky about trim and emblems...