Joe Sorenson

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Sean Cour

The hood is legal on a NON SS Camaro.

But the car has to be an SS to use the 350/300.
At least I'm glad that they changed the heads.
Must be a "west coast" rulebook thing. ;-)

[Larry Hill]

I stated wrong information on head interchangeably. My apologies

The hood deal I have a little first hand knowledge how NHRA treated the E Body Cuda. If I ran one engine the car had to have this one hood. If I used a different engine I had a choice of two hoods but was not allowed to run the first hood. But if that interpretation has been removed I wish they would have published it.

What is OEM equipment on a 1969 Camaro, I have no idea.

Congratulations gentleman on your well earned Championship

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Larry Hill

The 350/255 engine will pass tech as a 350/ 300 but a 350/ 300 won?t pass tech for a 350/ 255. The 350/300 has a 12. 06 cc smaller chamber.

Congratulations gentleman on your well earned Championship

Umm no, the 350/255 can only use a 441 head casting. The 350/300 can use a number of head castings but not a 441.

[Rory McNeil]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

But the car has to be an SS to use the 350/300.
At least I'm glad that they changed the heads.
Must be a "west coast" rulebook thing. ;-)

I have seen an awful lot of 67-69 Camaros wearing "Z/28" emblems that had 350/, 396 and 427 engines, AND Automatic transmissions, nobody seems to bat an eye. Weird huh? Also have seen fiberglass AAR hoods on non AAR Cudas, NHRA allows Powerglide cars use later 3 speed automatics, and don`t even get me started on all the new COPO, DragPak, and Cobra Jet Mustangs that come with Ford 9 inch rearends, Powerglides, and virtually zero engine components that actually came on the production models in the showrooms. Pretty sure a taller hood wouldn`t slow Joe down at all !

[Sean Cour]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

But the car has to be an SS to use the 350/300.
At least I'm glad that they changed the heads.
Must be a "west coast" rulebook thing. ;-)

NHRA stopped Joe at the scales during the divisional and went over the car. Joe has a order form from GM stating you COULD order a non SS with a 350/300 combination.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Sean Cour

Joe has a letter from GM stating you COULD order a non SS with a 350/300 combination.

Oh I'd LOVE to see a copy of that letter and who signed it! I'm sure Jerry Mcniesh and about a hundred different Racers in Stock and SS would too!
I'm calling BS on that one.
It didn't come from the same guy who came up with the paperwork for the 780 Holleys and Edelbrock intakes on the AMCs did it?

[Cglrcng]

Originally Posted by Dan Bennett

This has been pretty interesting to read, and all I have to add is some ancient anecdotal evidence.

i was racing a 70 Duster 340 4 spd I'd bought new. A year or so later, the alternator went out during the time Accel was expanding into more than plug wires. They brought out an alternator with a switch for the field circuit. In my young mind, that was Mopar Missile trick stuff.

I never saw any difference using it. Of course, that was a long time ago when 99% didn't measure or track weather data and long before data loggers existed.

When I moved into data acquition and analysis, nothing I ever worked with had an alternator. So, I ask the people who would know - is it a sure thing the small amount of hp sapped by a working alternator (I don't even know how many amps headlights draw) is actually a measurable and significant amount?

Whether it's some genius racing trick or not, it doesn't affect my admiriaton for what the Sorensons have accomplished.

Dan, they are not some genius racing tricks, but bonified viable and legal racing strategies if you are so close to red in a natural leave spot on the tree or E.T. to need them at the moment.

As far as the charging system and the drawdown effect it all depends on a whole host of items in your charging system of course (size and total cranking amps of the battery and charge state of the battery (how many time@ you start the car from pit to line), size, type and charging amps of your alternator, type and amps draw of those headlights, and how many headlights/tail lights and marker lights
you turn on...in my case all of em...High beams or low, regulator type, etc.

But, it can certainly shave off thousandths to a couple of hundredths at the tree on the leave and turn just red to a decent green.

200rpm less stall speed usually does the same for me, but 500 killed both the light and knocked off too much on the 60' too. Somehow my right foot moved when bumping in with the left. Lessons learned. Pulling on a light switch would sure be easier to accomplish with less risk. And each must find their own ways to adjust.

When a blink of your eyes takes 2.5 tenths of a second to accomplish, and the difference between red/green is so minute your brain cannot possibly comprehend or adjust your body a couple of thou, mechanical or biological changes must be applied. Not genius, not tricks, just good/bad strategy.

[Billy Nees]

Ya know, just to put an end to this, I don't really care about the "missing" SS hood. If anything it would take away from the engine. As long as I know that NHRA looked at the car and it had the correct heads for the combo claimed and class claimed then I'm OK with it.
Again, congratulations Hal and Joe!

[Cglrcng]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Oh I'd LOVE to see a copy of that letter and who signed it! I'm sure Jerry Mcniesh and about a hundred different Racers in Stock and SS would too!
I'm calling BS on that one.
It didn't come from the same guy who came up with the paperwork for the 780 Holleys and Edelbrock intakes on the AMCs did it?

I have to fully agree with Billy on that 1...The information must be provided directly to NHRA by the MFG. I also have the original 1984 Dodge Daytona factory showroom brochure published concerning all 3 models available that year and that I personally picked up at the same time we picked up the car I am driving that has all 3 shipping weights and other full specifications listed, and they are different than listed in the NHRA classification guide and they would not accept that data from me and adjust the actual shipping weight. And it would make an actual natural class fit difference. My combo was never shipped as light as the guide shows period. Data published elsewhere online also verifies the brochure specs and weights too. But, they flat out refuse to even look at the evidence and state they are not adjusting the shipping weight.

I am not stating I know anything about Camaro hoods or engine combos here at all, just pointing out the inconsistent ways NHRA deals with documentation and evidence, specs.

If the evidence exists look at it in all cases and rule on it, then publish it for all to use. But, that takes work. Laziness and economics rules the day these days it seems. Fairness to all takes a back seat.

[Mark Yacavone]

First off Congrats to Joe and Hal
Well deserved for two guys who actually assemble their own engines and transmissions.

About the hood }
I have a good friend who bought a used Camaro (68, not 69). It was ordered with a 295 / 350 engine, Powerglide trans, column shifter, bench seat, and small dog dish style hubcaps .
It was badged as a SS car, but sure didn't look it from a few feet away. .
Anyway , it DID have the raised hood with the chrome simulated ports inserts on it.
I wonder if the original buyer knew you could un-order the heavier SS hood?
Again this was a 68 car. Interesting !
Also , we raced a 68 Chevy II ,that was ordered as a big block car ,with rubber floor mats . We ran it as a 350 /295 PG combo. Of course it had to have the SS hood on it.

As a matter of fact, as long as I've been racing, which is more than a few years, anything that came from GM @ 295 horse or more had to have a SS hood , or cowl induction on Camaros

Again, very interesting ...Who knew?