Run Stock/Super Stock like Comp??

[JGrossijr]

Originally Posted by Justin Graham

Basically placing the brunt of the excessive number under on the driver, not the Combo. So it doesn?t penalize the masses, just the offender.

Justin,
With all due respect, we're racing in a performance category. How does outperforming your competition with the same combination get considered excessive or make one an offender? That's what class racing is all about, and its what a lot of us multi decade veterans live for.
In my book that racer deserves 2 things - A teardown, and recognition of accomplisment if legal.
Performance should be incentivised, not punished.

[GUMP]

That concept would be a hard NO for me.

[Justin Graham]

Originally Posted by JGrossijr

Justin,
With all due respect, we're racing in a performance category. How does outperforming your competition with the same combination get considered excessive or make one an offender? That's what class racing is all about, and its what a lot of us multi decade veterans live for.
In my book that racer deserves 2 things - A teardown, and recognition of accomplisment if legal.
Performance should be incentivised, not punished.

I find it interesting that a class like Comp, which is very performance oriented, had this concept put on it and was just curious if it would work for Stk/SS. I'm all for getting maximum effort out of our Combos. Every point Darin made, would clearly be more ideal.Totally agree with you Jim, teardown and recognition are greater. I'm trashing my spitball kit now

[Mike Pearson]

There is a huge difference between super stock/ stock and comp eliminator. Comp is a flat out first to the finish line category. They do have index's but have no break out in effect. The fields in comp are very small in comparison to stock and super stock. The cost to race a competitive comp car is much higher and much more difficult. Comp is in a much worse situation than stock and super stock as far as the health of the overall class.
I think there was less than 10 comp cars at the division race in Orlando a couple of weeks ago. Last week at the baby gators there was less than 15. Last I checked there is 17 comp cars entered in the Gatornationals. Most of us dont want stock and Super Stock to end up like Comp Eliminator.

[Billy Hampton]

So, a return to "first one to the finish line wins" is not wanted? When my dad ran, it was off the records and no break-out, Class Racing, not "bracket racing".

You could do this today by implementing a strict HP factoring system to automatically factor all runs for a season, (and get EVERY combination corrected to about -1.1). NHRA could reset to "even this out" for all combos so, no more break outs, no more ridiculously under-factored combos, etc.

THEN you could run- no breakout to the finish line.
You could always have a bracket race combo event if you don't want to compete in a performance based event. I bet all the races would be within a few hundredths after this was allowed to "run-in" for a couple of seasons.

Accurate HP factors would return Stock and SS to its true roots.

[Bill Grubbs]

Originally Posted by Billy Hampton

So, a return to "first one to the finish line wins" is not wanted? When my dad ran, it was off the records and no break-out, Class Racing, not "bracket racing"..

AND... Stock and SuperStock almost died! How many budget cars are in Comp? Hint...none. If you want to run Comp then I'm all for it...go run Comp!

[Justin Graham]

I DO NOT believe that a “First to the finish” is the way to go! I should have been clearer in my intent of this thread.

If I understand Comp rules correctly, they are given leeway to go way under, blasting the index to qualify. It’s when they go under their index by a set dot number (.6xx?), during Eliminations they get penalized with a personal ET adjustment.
So by that account, I thought what if that were applied to a Stk/SS racer going an absurd one under (-.1.xx) number, face a penalty then and there at that race, and only that race, and not get the entire combo readjusted at the end of the year. Essentially acting like AFHS but not enforcing an average. What -1.00 number do you think is outrageous? We all know that some divisions have environmental variables that are more favorable than others. It’s just an idea….

[J.R. Haddad]

So, as I see the problem, we have a performance based class, where improving your performance can lead to penalties. Usually, the faster cars
are accused of having one of two things, a) Rich Owner b) Mechanically
intelligent owner. These seem to be the cars that get the most penalties.
Conversely, with the advent of the Index System, some people quickly
figured out the could build cars for obscure or low populated classes,
for a relatively reasonable amount of money, and be as competitive as
anyone. That sounds like a relatively reasonable approach to bring the
two groups together. The budget mined Racer can race with the best of them and have an equal chance to win. So a win for the budget or Mechanically challenged Racer. This helps maintain strong participation
in the class, as most can "Play". But, no reward for the Well To Do Owner,
or the Mechanically Gifted. Here is their reward. Leave everything the very
same as it is, with one exception. Qualifying no longer has AHFS. Period.
And Qualifying will Award Qualifier 1 thru 5 qualifying points. 1 gets 5, 2 gets four, all the way until # 5, who gets one. Don't worry, it won't really affect points races as much as it may appear. The better drivers have a better chance to get points in later rounds than the usual top qualifiers. I believe it makes things more interesting. If you have already posted an idea or response to an idea, please share your thoughts. If you haven't posted an idea or responded to one, don't criticize my idea until you post yours for me to critique. J.R.

[Billy Hampton]

Originally Posted by Bill Grubbs

AND... Stock and SuperStock almost died! How many budget cars are in Comp? Hint...none. If you want to run Comp then I'm all for it...go run Comp!

$100K for a used COPO, $ 120K for a Mustang, $8,000 for a good trans. $3,000 for a set of decent heads, $5K+ for a competitive set. $10,000 for a rust-free chassis that has not been worked on. Most racing wheels and tires now cost more than a cheap used car. Motorhome, enclosed trailer, travel fuel, entry fees- weeks off work multiple times a year- tell me, who is this budget racer you refer to? I don't see 10 year old pick-ups and open trailers littering the pits at DIV & National events. The entire class is not for the middle class; it's upper or wealthy only already. The guys that have owned the same car since new could sell them now and pay off a mortgage (almost). Not complaining, just stating facts. Bracket racing is out of control, too. Pure Stock may be an option again for these few budget racers. It just ain't cheap, period.

Adjust indexes over 18 months and restore the roots of "class racing".

[JP1738]

Originally Posted by Billy Hampton

$100K for a used COPO, $ 120K for a Mustang, $8,000 for a good trans. $3,000 for a set of decent heads, $5K+ for a competitive set. $10,000 for a rust-free chassis that has not been worked on. Most racing wheels and tires now cost more than a cheap used car. Motorhome, enclosed trailer, travel fuel, entry fees- weeks off work multiple times a year- tell me, who is this budget racer you refer to? I don't see 10 year old pick-ups and open trailers littering the pits at DIV & National events. The entire class is not for the middle class; it's upper or wealthy only already. The guys that have owned the same car since new could sell them now and pay off a mortgage (almost). Not complaining, just stating facts. Bracket racing is out of control, too. Pure Stock may be an option again for these few budget racers. It just ain't cheap, period.

Adjust indexes over 18 months and restore the roots of "class racing".

Here's my set-up. I race on a pretty tight budget with some help from some very good friends. I probably could find a way to do it completely solo but the help with parts and things of that nature go a long long way. 20 y/o truck with an open trailer and stocker that I've built just over the last year and a half. It took me a while to save up and accumulate all this stuff, but pretty much everything I have is mine and I don't make lots of money. Just lots of late nights and saving money by doing as many things myself as possible.

If you love racing like I love racing, you will find a way to get to the race track, whatever it takes.