NHRA Fastest 128 cars

[Ed Fernandez]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

On the flip side, and with all due respect Terry, under the previous system, let me get THIS straight:

Car A competes for the class win against 4-5 other cars, runs 12.50 or quicker, and runs more than .85 under, does NOT win class, however, does qualify as one of the 128 quickest cars.

Car B singles for class, runs 15.0 or slower, and barely runs 0.51 under the index, and does NOT qualify as one of the 128 quickest cars, but in fact is 168th out of 180 cars.

Car A is sent home with a DNQ, Car B bumps into the field as a "class winner".

We went to Indy last year, and I hung my head in shame as we posted a DNQ with a weak engine. But there were cars that were over 2 tenths slower than us who got in, and guys in our class who were faster and got sent home. We didn't get in on time, I can accept that, and I bear the responsibility for that. But the guys who got in on time and then got bumped by cars 3 tenths slower got cheated I think.

Whenever this argument comes up it some people like to use the slwer indexed cars as an example of the unfairness of the system.Us poor unwashed throgolites either cant afford or are unwilling to spend our retirement money to get in a pissing contest with some (not all) of the upper indexed cars.So we build the slower cars because they are maybe 1)cheaper to build and maintain 2)are less class populated 3)and fun to drive,especially when putting out some of the toterhome,stacker,filet mignon crew.Not all are but there is an element of them with more money than common sense.
I personally could care less about what NHRA does in this situation because I'll probably never attend Indy,but I think class winners shold get first preference.


Ed F,
Possibly 1.00 under in good weather
with a 30 mph tail wind.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Ed Fernandez

Whenever this argument comes up it some people like to use the slwer indexed cars as an example of the unfairness of the system.Us poor unwashed throgolites either cant afford or are unwilling to spend our retirement money to get in a pissing contest with some (not all) of the upper indexed cars.So we build the slower cars because they are maybe 1)cheaper to build and maintain 2)are less class populated 3)and fun to drive,especially when putting out some of the toterhome,stacker,filet mignon crew.Not all are but there is an element of them with more money than common sense.
I personally could care less about what NHRA does in this situation because I'll probably never attend Indy,but I think class winners shold get first preference.


Ed F,
Possibly 1.00 under in good weather
with a 30 mph tail wind.

No Ed, actually the point I was making was there are very slow cars that are almost able to run 0.5 under the index as you buy them off the used car lot for $3500, and people buy them because they can race them and NEVER have to face a heads up race.

[Greg Hill]

Look at the entry list for stock at Indy this year. May not be a problem in stock, however super stock is a different thing.

Greg

[Bruce Noland]

Jack,
Man, you have got your act together! You have several light conversations with a guy and you immediately know what is in his heart. I ain't buy'n it. Sure Wally started off with great ideas but dough soon became the light of his life. Sorry to sound so cynical.

I kind'a look at what Wally did over twenty years ago when he changed the whole nature of the organization into a giant government money sucking organization; you know - our tax dollars. I do not lay claim to any part of this sport but I am damn serious about the taxes I pay. This change a enabled him to become very rich.

Yeah, as far as Stock and Super Stock are concerned, they added a bunch of classes along the way but that was for survival. They are good at that. And then Wally turns the whole organization over to a bunch who have continued to "enhance" the sportsman racers. It's more of a case of "what could have been" than "what is."

[Jason]

All these years I thought having a different combo was cool. Meeting strict guidelines such as winning class while running at least .5 under the index allowed you to play with the big bucks racers. Not anymore.

Instead of flogging a different combination that no one else would even try, everyone needs to race what is currently qualifying quick. Early Camaros, Max Wedge Mopars, and Shelby Mustangs are a little pricey to build. Maybe something like a FI Camaro/Firebird would work. You can pick one of those up fairly cheap. Order the readily available trick parts from key places, follow cookie cutter instructions, and you may go fast enough to get to race at Indy.

Gone are the days of individualism and ingenuity. Long live the cookie cutter racecar!

[Larry Hill]

Alan, I can tell anyone from experience it cost more money, time, work, and phone calls to get slow car to run fast.
Slow cars are harder to drive the stripe.

[Jack Matyas]

Bruce -- Light conversations - I don't think so -- He was at the top of NHRA and I was almost at the bottom . Are you forgetting the ten or so years I worked for the NHRA right here in D1 ? You really need more facts about Wally before you try to destroy his legacy .
And BTW -- fill your glass up -- its always half empty ! !

[Jeff Foster]

Want to know where this came from? ask your driver addvisory committe members for stock and super stock they know who.

[Chad Rhodes]

If you single for class, and you aren't fast, it shouldn't guarantee you a spot in the show. Now if you WIN class, meaning you had to race someone then you should be in the show. But just because your rental car will run .5 under in Q/FS shouldn't let you bump out the guy who had to run Class vs 8 other cars and runner upped in it ( yes i realize that in theory if you runner up class vs 8 cars you should be fast enough on time).

[Alan Roehrich]

I'll say this, and I'm done with this thread.

I seriously doubt Wally Parks, or any founding member, EVER intended that cars that could barely run a 1/2 second under the index be able to avoid actually racing for a class win or qualifying and have a free ticket to single into the U.S. Nationals, or any other event. I just cannot look back into history and see any evidence there was an intent to allow anyone to actually be able to avoid actually qualifying or racing.

It seems to me that people are assuming that because Stock has so many classes that NHRA intended to have enough classes to allow people to not have to race other people for a class win. I don't think so. They have enough classes to allow a large variety of cars. Not to allow people to avoid competition.

Do I think a class win at Indy should be special? Yes, I certainly do. You should get a BIG Wally, a decent amount of prize money, and at least your name, if not your name AND picture in the Dragster. But I do not think you should get a free pass through qualifying if you single for class and do not even come CLOSE to qualifying on time, and 3 tenths is NOT close. And you certainly should NOT bump out a car that is 3 tenths faster than you. MAYBE they should allow you in, but not at the expense of a car that actually ran fast enough to qualify.

This is ANOTHER reason to lower the index 2 tenths. Then leave the trigger for a single for a class win at 5 tenths under.

It's called RACING, you have to QUALIFY, and to WIN, you have to RACE. I'm thinking they changed the rules because people started taking advantage of the rules, and gaming the system. And I'm glad they did. I'd sure as Hell NOT be proud of making the field at Indy by AVOIDING having to race another car and barely running a 1/2 second under. It's one thing to build a car for a class where there are not a LOT of other cars in the class, it's another to build a car for a class where the odds are you won't ever see another car in your class.

It's a SAD day for the sport when people WANT to build class cars and NOT have to race. It's even sadder when they are rewarded for it, especially at the expense of people who actually race other people. It'll be a shame when class racing becomes like the children's sports where people feel it's bad to keep score and have winners and losers.