Factory Showdown at INDY

[C and W Racing]

Originally Posted by Bruce Noland

Our site would be called: legitimatecomplaintsagainstarrogantoldmen.com

Move on? I'm sure that is what you would like to happen, since it appears you have gotten your way. But it isn't going to happen. Be prepared to hear about it for a long time.

Bruce, how did I get my way? First off, I am a long way away from being anywhere close to the fast guys. Second, at the et we are at, there are a lot of the older cars that are faster than I am. So enlighten me. Like I said, the fast guy's have invested a lot of time and money. Or is that what really bothers you, maybe you have the time, but not the money, to be as fast as you want to be. Or were you once king, and now you're not? How many heads up have you been a part of lately with the new cars? Like has been said by many, they for the most part are in there own class. There may still be a few in the lower classes, but not many. This thread was supposed to be about them running in their own class.
Chuck

[Andrew Hill]

Originally Posted by C and W Racing

Bruce, how did I get my way? First off, I am a long way away from being anywhere close to the fast guys. Second, at the et we are at, there are a lot of the older cars that are faster than I am. So enlighten me. Like I said, the fast guy's have invested a lot of time and money. Or is that what really bothers you, maybe you have the time, but not the money, to be as fast as you want to be. Or were you once king, and now you're not? How many heads up have you been a part of lately with the new cars? Like has been said by many, they for the most part are in there own class. There may still be a few in the lower classes, but not many. This thread was supposed to be about them running in their own class.
Chuck

Time and money are not the problem when comparing new cars and old cars, physics is the problem. No matter how much time or money I spend on my car, or anyone spends on their pre-2008 car, it will not be as fast as the new cars that are given equal treatment.

[Bruce Noland]

Originally Posted by C and W Racing

Bruce, how did I get my way? First off, I am a long way away from being anywhere close to the fast guys. Second, at the et we are at, there are a lot of the older cars that are faster than I am. So enlighten me. Like I said, the fast guy's have invested a lot of time and money. Or is that what really bothers you, maybe you have the time, but not the money, to be as fast as you want to be. Or were you once king, and now you're not? How many heads up have you been a part of lately with the new cars? Like has been said by many, they for the most part are in there own class. There may still be a few in the lower classes, but not many. This thread was supposed to be about them running in their own class.
Chuck

Chuck,
You got your way by running these cars in Stock. These cars arrived with a heavy gift factor. I know it is hard for you to understand the way many of us feel since you are coming into Stock with a new car. And as you said you had no interest in Stock before the CJ.

The new cars a short term cash cow for nhra and maybe a lot of fun for the folks who can afford them. What happens after you folks are finished playing? What is left?

[C and W Racing]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hill

Time and money are not the problem when comparing new cars and old cars, physics is the problem. No matter how much time or money I spend on my car, or anyone spends on their pre-2008 car, it will not be as fast as the new cars that are given equal treatment.

I stated that way earlier in this thread. The advancements are way more than the power under the hood. Thats why I also stated earlier, that if one person chooses one combo and someone else chooses a differant combo, don't bitch about their choice when everyone has a choice when they build what they like. The argument about it took 40 years of development for my camaro to be where it is took hard work and now with the new cars you don't need 40 years of blood sweat and tears holds no argument with me either. If I or anyone else were to start building a 1969 camaro today, would we use 1969 technoligy or 2012? Should I not be able to use what has been figured out by people a lot smarter than me? Or am I supposed to start from scratch and figure it out all on my own?
Chuck

[C and W Racing]

Originally Posted by Bruce Noland

Chuck,
You got your way by running these cars in Stock. These cars arrived with a heavy gift factor. I know it is hard for you to understand the way many of us feel since you are coming into Stock with a new car. And as you said you had no interest in Stock before the CJ.

The new cars a short term cash cow for nhra and maybe a lot of fun for the folks who can afford them. What happens after you folks are finished playing? What is left?

Bruce, I don't know that they arrived with a heavy gift factor. Are the engines efficient? yes. Do they have a lot of technology in them, yes. One thing I do know, It wasn't Ford that was trying to get over on people. The guy that owns the car that I drive has a lot of friends in higher ups at Ford and they refused to give out any info with the computers and management systems. It wasn't until people were able to modify the factory computer ( which was no easy feat) as well as others designing aftermarket systems that things took off. Ford was pretty upset at a lot of people that started running fast, because that was not their intent.
Like I said earlier, I grew up in the muscle car era and love the old muscle cars. People like fast cars, and there are a lot of older combo's that are fast. There is a lot of innovated people in stock and what they can do with some combo's is very impressive. But does that mean I would ever have the desire to drive a world record holding V6 impala? No, that doesn't interest me.
Chuck

[Andrew Hill]

Originally Posted by C and W Racing

I stated that way earlier in this thread. The advancements are way more than the power under the hood. Thats why I also stated earlier, that if one person chooses one combo and someone else chooses a differant combo, don't bitch about their choice when everyone has a choice when they build what they like. The argument about it took 40 years of development for my camaro to be where it is took hard work and now with the new cars you don't need 40 years of blood sweat and tears holds no argument with me either. If I or anyone else were to start building a 1969 camaro today, would we use 1969 technoligy or 2012? Should I not be able to use what has been figured out by people a lot smarter than me? Or am I supposed to start from scratch and figure it out all on my own?
Chuck

So my car will not run with the new cars, no matter what, but they have factors equal or less than mine? 2012 302 CJ, 2010 5.9 DP, 2010 352 CJ, all equal or less than me. How does that make sense?

I have no problem with these cars in their own classes, which are basically what AAA, AA, and BB are, but there are still new cars that are insanely under factored in classes with old cars.

[Bruce Noland]

Originally Posted by C and W Racing

Bruce, I don't know that they arrived with a heavy gift factor. Are the engines efficient? yes. Do they have a lot of technology in them, yes. One thing I do know, It wasn't Ford that was trying to get over on people. The guy that owns the car that I drive has a lot of friends in higher ups at Ford and they refused to give out any info with the computers and management systems. It wasn't until people were able to modify the factory computer ( which was no easy feat) as well as others designing aftermarket systems that things took off. Ford was pretty upset at a lot of people that started running fast, because that was not their intent.
Like I said earlier, I grew up in the muscle car era and love the old muscle cars. People like fast cars, and there are a lot of older combo's that are fast. There is a lot of innovated people in stock and what they can do with some combo's is very impressive. But does that mean I would ever have the desire to drive a world record holding V6 impala? No, that doesn't interest me.
Chuck

Chuck,
You are definitely out of the loop. Maybe you should check the archive here for more information. The Ford engineers made it very clear to me at the 2008 SEMA show that these cars made 800 horsepower and that they were protecting that information from nhra at that time. But nhra staff was soon told about it and yet they still went along with the scam. All this has been discussed before. You should learn more about this problem before jumping into the middle of this conversation with little or no knowledge about the subject.

[Greg Hill]

The facts are that these are not real cars. They don't have vin numbers and the motors are all made up bs from their high performance catalogs or somebody else's catalog. To go along with that they got horsepower ratings that were so soft that anyone with half a brain knew were bogus. So you guys thump your chest about how fast you are but let's see you take a 396-375 or an old cobra jet or a 440 6 pack car and run a second under, then you will have something to brag about.

[B Parker]

8 seconds in the quarter mile 8 seconds !!!!! How can anyone even get on here and say these are stock eliminator cars. I love seeing the new cars at the track. But it's just not right. Wish they had figured out something a little better than we have now. I agree with Mike Carr. Buy on Saturday and race on Sunday. Take a look at the 69 427/425 hp motor. Now look at the new copo. 427/425 If you guys don't have at least 100 hp over the 69 when your done. I would find a new engine shop. And to compare the advantage these cars have to the older days when a big advantage was a tenth. Is a joke. I quess if you tell yourselves that long enough at least you'll believe it. Ok nuff said HOW DO I GET ME ONE OF THOSE NEW CARS !!!! I wonder if my brother and myself could make one run. LOL

[cambria]

Bruce don't know you but you are entitled to say whatever you want and the readers here will decide whether you are right wrong or something less complimentary . Me I can't wait to get the car and do everything I can to make it fast . I don't hide it not apologizing for it glad that I work hard enough to afford it so peace out brother