Factory experimental

Bruce Noland · 01-16-2009, 08:37 AM

Probably the best way for us to deal with the new After Market Super Stock cars running in Stock is to simply take up a collection and make nhra a better offer. So, all we have to do is find out how much it cost Ford and Chrysler to place these cars in Stock. Then we just have to raise more money and go pay the nhra. I'm sure it really is just that simple.

Well, maybe this would be a short term fix because Ford and Chrysler would then come back with a better offer and we would lose all our money.

And I wonder about the racers who are going to race these cars in Stock. I wonder what they are thinking. Do they see this as a fair deal for the Stock Category? Now they have these great big cannons to race against a bunch of racers with pistols. This really is a new day for Stock. This is not part of a cycle. It is a major reset.

Greg Hill · 01-16-2009, 08:44 AM

The biggest problem I see is that these are not street legal cars. These are purpose built race cars with bogus shipping weights and in the case of Ford an engine that doesn't come in a street legal car. Of course with Ford that's not a new thing. Chuck, if these cars were in your class and could run 2 seconds under the index you would be whining and complaining too.

Greg

Billy Nees · 01-16-2009, 08:50 AM

Who are you and what have you done with the REAL Bruce Noland? I've been bitching for years about all of the exotic new stuff finding its way into Stock and making it harder for the guys racing real cars to compete and the REAL Bruce has been telling me that I'm crazy and Stock has to change or it will die! Seems to me that change is making this person (whoever he really is) a little itchy. Again, welcome to MY world.

Bruce Noland · 01-16-2009, 08:55 AM

Billy,

I know you live in a very mysterious world. But I don't remember ever saying the things you just brought up.

But do we now agree?

Billy Nees · 01-16-2009, 09:00 AM

100%

Chuck Beach · 01-16-2009, 09:02 AM

Greg,
The LT1 and the LS1 were both in my class and I got my ***** handed to me lots of times until they put them in their own class ... and now they are back, but don't fit in my class anymore ...

Bruce Noland · 01-16-2009, 09:13 AM

Chuck,
As I remember you were the one doing all the mega-complaining about those cars when they came out! And you're still complaining about them; after all these years.

You can bet we'll be on the 2010 Corvette too. This is not about OEM favorites it's about the OEM's abusing the Stock category - with nhra's help and gratitude of course.

Tim Kish · 01-16-2009, 10:10 AM

Now look at it this way. The first year with a new engine/vehicle combo that comes out underfactored will be tough on existing cars in their class - nothing to debate. BUT look at the fact that there are many of these cars being built so there will be a bunch of them running. With several cars being built there are going to be times or people that hang them out there and show what they can do. Someones ego will kick in becuase they wanna win class or another heads up pass - short list of people out there that actually will lift and give up the stripe to save index in Super Stock (we're not Comp racers). Just like the LT1 and LS motor cars - they'll right themselves within a couple seasons.

Look at the new combos as stimulating the racing economy - if its such an easy car to build and be competitive, a bunch will be built (just like the LT1/LS1 cars were) which supports race shops and parts suppliers - the same group of people we're all crying are not paying contingency. Heck if no new combos came around the race shops and parts suppliers would dry up if they weren't selling consumable items.

Greg Hill · 01-16-2009, 09:21 AM

Chuck I remember when the LT1's came out at 275 hp. Pontiac was the official NHRA car and they were capable of running a second under with a cam change , rear gear and headers. The reason NHRA had to make the fuel injected classes is that they wouldn't factor the engines properly. After 66 hp on the LT1's they are no better than a lot of combinations. My biggest concern with the new Ford and Chrysler cars is that they are factory built race cars and always before would be in Super stock, aka. the 68 Cuda's and Darts. If the LT1's were still at 275 hp you would be bitchin too. If these new cars are factored properly they will be out of stock eliminator because they won't fit because of the weight break.

Greg

Chuck Beach · 01-16-2009, 09:45 AM

Bruce,
You must be old like me, you need to check your memory, I don't recall complaining about them, I just raced against them ...

01-16-2009, 08:37 AM	#1
Bruce Noland VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,855 Likes: 83 Liked 444 Times in 145 Posts	Re: Factory experimental Probably the best way for us to deal with the new After Market Super Stock cars running in Stock is to simply take up a collection and make nhra a better offer. So, all we have to do is find out how much it cost Ford and Chrysler to place these cars in Stock. Then we just have to raise more money and go pay the nhra. I'm sure it really is just that simple. Well, maybe this would be a short term fix because Ford and Chrysler would then come back with a better offer and we would lose all our money. And I wonder about the racers who are going to race these cars in Stock. I wonder what they are thinking. Do they see this as a fair deal for the Stock Category? Now they have these great big cannons to race against a bunch of racers with pistols. This really is a new day for Stock. This is not part of a cycle. It is a major reset. __________________ Bruce Noland 1788 STK

01-16-2009, 08:44 AM	#2
Greg Hill VIP Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Louisville , KY Posts: 1,995 Likes: 68 Liked 279 Times in 68 Posts	Re: Factory experimental The biggest problem I see is that these are not street legal cars. These are purpose built race cars with bogus shipping weights and in the case of Ford an engine that doesn't come in a street legal car. Of course with Ford that's not a new thing. Chuck, if these cars were in your class and could run 2 seconds under the index you would be whining and complaining too. Greg __________________ Greg Hill 4171 STK

01-16-2009, 08:50 AM	#3
Billy Nees VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: On a hilltop in Pa. Posts: 4,495 Likes: 3,600 Liked 7,742 Times in 1,740 Posts	Re: Factory experimental Who are you and what have you done with the REAL Bruce Noland? I've been bitching for years about all of the exotic new stuff finding its way into Stock and making it harder for the guys racing real cars to compete and the REAL Bruce has been telling me that I'm crazy and Stock has to change or it will die! Seems to me that change is making this person (whoever he really is) a little itchy. Again, welcome to MY world. __________________ Billy Nees 1188 STK, SS I'm not spending 100K to win 2K

01-16-2009, 08:55 AM	#4
Bruce Noland VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,855 Likes: 83 Liked 444 Times in 145 Posts	Re: Factory experimental Billy, I know you live in a very mysterious world. But I don't remember ever saying the things you just brought up. But do we now agree? __________________ Bruce Noland 1788 STK

01-16-2009, 09:00 AM	#5
Billy Nees VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: On a hilltop in Pa. Posts: 4,495 Likes: 3,600 Liked 7,742 Times in 1,740 Posts	Re: Factory experimental 100% __________________ Billy Nees 1188 STK, SS I'm not spending 100K to win 2K

01-16-2009, 09:02 AM	#6
Chuck Beach Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Delaware, Ohio Posts: 664 Likes: 12 Liked 58 Times in 13 Posts	Re: Factory experimental Greg, The LT1 and the LS1 were both in my class and I got my ***** handed to me lots of times until they put them in their own class ... and now they are back, but don't fit in my class anymore ... __________________ Chuck Beach 3340 STK

01-16-2009, 09:13 AM	#7
Bruce Noland VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,855 Likes: 83 Liked 444 Times in 145 Posts	Re: Factory experimental Chuck, As I remember you were the one doing all the mega-complaining about those cars when they came out! And you're still complaining about them; after all these years. You can bet we'll be on the 2010 Corvette too. This is not about OEM favorites it's about the OEM's abusing the Stock category - with nhra's help and gratitude of course. __________________ Bruce Noland 1788 STK

01-16-2009, 10:10 AM	#8
Tim Kish Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Kalamazoo, MI Posts: 281 Likes: 2 Liked 11 Times in 4 Posts	Re: Factory experimental Now look at it this way. The first year with a new engine/vehicle combo that comes out underfactored will be tough on existing cars in their class - nothing to debate. BUT look at the fact that there are many of these cars being built so there will be a bunch of them running. With several cars being built there are going to be times or people that hang them out there and show what they can do. Someones ego will kick in becuase they wanna win class or another heads up pass - short list of people out there that actually will lift and give up the stripe to save index in Super Stock (we're not Comp racers). Just like the LT1 and LS motor cars - they'll right themselves within a couple seasons. Look at the new combos as stimulating the racing economy - if its such an easy car to build and be competitive, a bunch will be built (just like the LT1/LS1 cars were) which supports race shops and parts suppliers - the same group of people we're all crying are not paying contingency. Heck if no new combos came around the race shops and parts suppliers would dry up if they weren't selling consumable items. __________________ Tim Kish 3032 SS/GS

01-16-2009, 09:21 AM	#9
Greg Hill VIP Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Louisville , KY Posts: 1,995 Likes: 68 Liked 279 Times in 68 Posts	Re: Factory experimental Chuck I remember when the LT1's came out at 275 hp. Pontiac was the official NHRA car and they were capable of running a second under with a cam change , rear gear and headers. The reason NHRA had to make the fuel injected classes is that they wouldn't factor the engines properly. After 66 hp on the LT1's they are no better than a lot of combinations. My biggest concern with the new Ford and Chrysler cars is that they are factory built race cars and always before would be in Super stock, aka. the 68 Cuda's and Darts. If the LT1's were still at 275 hp you would be bitchin too. If these new cars are factored properly they will be out of stock eliminator because they won't fit because of the weight break. Greg __________________ Greg Hill 4171 STK

01-16-2009, 09:45 AM	#10
Chuck Beach Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Delaware, Ohio Posts: 664 Likes: 12 Liked 58 Times in 13 Posts	Re: Factory experimental Bruce, You must be old like me, you need to check your memory, I don't recall complaining about them, I just raced against them ... __________________ Chuck Beach 3340 STK