Factory experimental

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by 1664SSJA

Come gather 'round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown
And accept it that soon
You'll be drenched to the bone.
If your time to you
Is worth savin'
Then you better start swimmin'
Or you'll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won't come again
And don't speak too soon
For the wheel's still in spin
And there's no tellin' who
That it's namin'.
For the loser now
Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside
And it is ragin'.
It'll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is
Rapidly agin'.
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'.

The line it is drawn
The curse it is cast
The slow one now
Will later be fast
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is
Rapidly fadin'.
And the first one now
Will later be last
For the times they are a-changin'.

" The pump don't work 'cause the vandals took the handle"

[Billy Nees]

Bucket? I like my old bucket. It still does everything that I need a bucket to do. I also like the fact that I can still s**t in my bucket and throw it all over your shiny pumper truck!

[Bruce Noland]

GoingBroke,

You don't get it do you? I guess you don't get it because you don't have anything invested in this issue.

And NO I don't think this is all about ME. You can come up with all these oddball comments, but you have not offered anything to this discussion. NO you don't have to agree with me but it is important for all of us to note that you have nothing to lose from your point of view.

This issue of After Market Super Stock Cars in Stock harms dozens of racers and it is important that we understand what Ford and nhra are up to. Now from your selfish point of view it is okay for a willful nhra to allow these After Market Super Stock Cars to run in STOCK. Even though this corrupt decision by nhra will turn millions of dollars of great race cars in to glorified door stops. And NO this issue is not all about me. It's about ALL of us who have worked hard, spent our hard earned dollars to build these damn cars to nhra specifications only to be back stabbed by a greedy sanctioning body and OEM's. It's total crap and you can sit back and chuckle all you want but this corrupt behavior by nhra and Ford is hurting a lot of racers. You guys don't have to like my suggestion for putting these cars in a Factory Experimental class, however, they should not be in our regular Stock classes. These cars don't represent a slight change in the way we race. They are category killers. And in the end you will see that it impacts all the classes not just the AA and A classes. I'm sure nhra would love to see these Super Stockers in the hands of enough millionaires where they could dump all the classes and pass them off to the public as the New Stock Eliminator.

Good luck!

[Greg Hill]

Well said Bruce. Allowing aftermarket purpose built race cars in stock eliminator is a perversion of the rules. Stock was created for regular assembly line cars that available to the public. The motor in this Mustang is not even available in a production Mustang. I notice that most of the people who favor this don't race in Stock with the exception of my good friend Chuck. Those of you who think this will make stock stronger don't have a clue. One other thing, perversion of the rules is becoming commonplace with NHRA these days.

Greg

[Alan Roehrich]

Once again, NHRA completely ignores the law of unintended consequences, in a quest for the biggest payoff. There used to be a rule against aftermarket "tuner cars", especially those with superchargers. Anyone else actually look at the supercharger on this particular combination, and what it is actually designed to fit? When this first leaked out a while back, I did. If you know anything about engines, supercharging, and racing, you'll understand, if you don't, well, no one will ever help you figure it out. In the past, cars like this were either illegal, or immediately placed in Super Stock or another class where they actually belong.

It's funny, the ZL-1 Camaro, an actual factory production car that met all the rules, was removed from the class guide, and only recently (2005) reinstated. Funnier still, the factory production 1967 Corvette L-88 was also removed, on grounds that not enough were produced, when 36 were sold to the public, and dozens were given to racers (easily making the 50 car quota). But there are other cars that were never actually sold to the public that are allowed, and even racers and fans of that brand say they should not be.

The factory Challenger is one thing, but a Roush supercharged car is entirely different. And it has absolutely nothing to do with the "base brand" of the car, either.

Now, the next thing is, a bunch of people will come in saying this is all just a bunch of whining by the Chevy guys. Wrong again. It won't be just a few guys with L-88 Corvettes, LS-6 Chevelles, and the ZL-1 or L-72 Camaros, there'll be plenty of guys with even more expensive Hemi cars, and 427 Fords that get the short, but stiff, end of the stick from NHRA on this one. Some of those guys have had their cars for 30, and some even close to 40, years. I guess NHRA has already had enough of their little guy dollars, they're ready to take some big bucks from the factory and the tuner.

[Billy Nees]

Wow! I guess that I can die in my sleep and be a happy man! First Bruce and now Greg! Hey guys, while I will agree with you both 100% about "Factory Superstockers" coming into Stock, the "Perversion of the rules" has been going on for so long now (and usually with certain racers approval) that I'm sure that the suits in Glendora just figure this latest perversion is just the norm. We need the OEMs if for nothing else then for the publicity that they can generate. BUT, we need them participating within the "intent and spirit" of the rules. As far as I'm concerned, we all brought this upon ourselves by allowing "the rules" to be stretched and bent (and ignored) to the point that even I (the dumb s**t that I am) know that Stock is not Stock anymore. I feel that the dreaded AHFS was just NHRAs way of telling us"we can't enforce the rules anymore so go ahead and enhance heads and intakes and run parts breaker cams and we'll just tag on some HP". Greg, you and Woodro seem to be driving this runner volume issue and I'm going to guess (and I'll bet that it's a pretty good guess) that it's being driven to just try and make legal some "enhanced" heads that aren't legal now. Oh but let's see, now we've got NO valve seat rule and any steel valve which is going to make our runners bigger. I fail to see a difference between what Ford and Chrysler are doing with engines that never came in cars and what we are doing with valves, heads, brakes, fuel cells, ceramic lifters,wheelie bars, etc that never came in cars. BTW, LT1s never came in 98 Firebirds.

[Greg Hill]

Billy, it seems to me there is a large difference between allowing a small variance in runner volumes because of rule changes over the years and letting a blown aftermarket built race car in stock.

Greg

[Billy Nees]

Greg, they are both "perversions of the rules". Period. I guess that the difference you are seeing is that it's OK to steal a little but it's not OK to steal a lot!

[dwydendorf]

I would like to know what part of these cars makes them Super Stockers? Is it the fact that there are only 50 of them or would it be all right if Ford built 500? Is it the 5.4 engine? Isn't there a 5.4 engine available in the Shelby Mustang? My local Ford Dealer ,in a town of 8000 people, had 2 of them on the showroom floor last year. Is it the Eaton Supercharger that is available on the 600 hp Corvette and previous mentioned Shelby Mustang? I rented a Pontiac Grand Prix at National Car Rental a few years ago that was equipped with an Eaton Supercharger. Is it the 9 inch rear end and 9 inch Goodyear tires and Bogart wheels? Gee, I thought you could do this in Stock. Is it the fact that Ford farmed out the building of these cars to Roush instead of tying up their assembly lines to do it? Isn't that how Chrysler used to build the K car convertibles and Chevy used to build the T top cars by farming the operation to ASC? Is it the lighter shipping weight? Don't you think you could make the car lighter by taking out all of the junk they put in these new cars? Hey, what is stopping you from building one? Instead of complaining about the new cars, how about complaining about the Automatic Horsepower Factoring System, that doesn't work.LOL

[Alan Roehrich]

Billy, on one hand, you are correct in that both instances are a somewhat fundamental change in the current rules.

However, for NHRA to adjust the cylinder head volumes because they told the racers a year ago they could legally do a more radical valve job in no way compares to NHRA allowing an OEM to hire a tuner to bring in a supercharged non factory production car.

The adjusting of the cylinder head volumes, if it happens, is a result of NHRA having to compensate for poor decisions they made, not only is it possible, even likely that their list of volumes has some errors, but before deciding to enact a cylinder head volume rule, they first allowed modifications to the heads long after the volumes were established.

This other train wreck, well, it pretty much speaks for itself.