Last Year of Modified? Question

[Robert Swartz]

Originally Posted by Rich Biebel

Modified was great but lets talk about the bad side....costs and breakage. Everytime something new came out you had to have it. Driveline breakage was pretty bad and engine breakage could also put you out of action quickly. We raced a car out of our shop in C/SM. I recall one run at Maple Grove where we broke the clutch, fixed it in a hurry and the car wouldn't move after replacing the clutch. The trans was also broken and the rear had damage as well we later found out. Folded the splines on some axles........took the motor out and apart practically after every race to puff it up. Other guys that had machine work done at our shop had all the same stories. I recall one guy built his own engine for D/MP and he was a very competetive car.....the engine blew up on T/K's dyno and that ended that racers drive to continue. Another guy was the class winner from the E-Town SummerNationals and won pretty regularly with it. He blew his engine and sold the car.....My friend bought it to replace his Camaro.....becasue the Novas were better? When we went to pick it up an exhaust valve head fell out of one of the headers.....The guy said....."so thats where that went!" The costs were too high for the average guy to keep up with. I loved the category but I saw a ton of breakage, Only the top guys had all the best stuff to try and limit that breakage.....

As much fun as this thread is. Rich, you're dead on. These cars were alot of fun but, honestly, they took buckets full of money to run back in their day. We can wax poetic but if you were resurrect this kind of a class today! Short of getting some of the stimulus money, I just don't know many people that could field one of these cars.

What made many of them really neat, they weren't terribly sophsticated. They did have killer motors with 4 (and later 5) speed transmissions. Many of the E-F-G (both MP & Gas) cars were heavy, as others have said, very breakage prone. The chassis weren't trick by todays standards. Short of having the springs moved inward, most stockers today are more trick than the average modified car was 30 years ago. I was around some of the local cars in the early 70's and they were downright crude.

Have to admit, when I was a pup, modified was a helluva show.

Robert Swartz

[SPS]

Thanks to Bob Rice for the pic.

I don't recall where that was taken but I see the "R" on the window.
...and my wife sure looks a lot younger {she says}

FJ

[Bob Rice]

FJ,
That was taken at Suffolk.
Bob Rice

[Rich Biebel]

I once saw a Camaro running B/MP I think eject the entire rear out the back of the car at E-Town. Talk about violent and breakage! The clutches and discs of the era were the real problem. Then there was the Mazda...Samurai Warrior......Ear piercing thing and nobody could catch him. I think the fact that all the cars were manual transmissions and the RPM's were way up there especially on the small motors is why everyone loved it. I know I still enjoy watching most of the big power "handshift" Stockers and SS'ers make a run.

[SPS]

Robert/ Rich:

I think that most of us involved at the time would argue about the cost or sophistication of the Modified cars of the time. {yes, this was 30 years ago, not today} . These were well-built cars , as good as the parts available.
Examples would be Arlen Fadley's Maverick,{one of my toughest competitors}, arguably one of the first body-in-white cars ever built. Or my own Camaro, built in the mid 70's with a 4-link under the stock floor and stock frame rails {within the rules of the time}.

Remember, we raced at least 3 times a week and made probably 4 times as many runs a year as today.

I don't agree that it took buckets of money to race or be competitive as I sure didn't have a lot.. Instead , hard work and determination was the key to success. No crying when you got beat. Instead you went home and went to work. {sometimes I'm amazed we did that much work}

One of the best parts in my memory of Modified was the recognition by your competition when you ran well. No hard feelings here, just excellent competition by a close-knit group of racers with the same competitive spirit.

FJ

[Rich Biebel]

FJ...I guess it is mostly how commited you are to the sport. Your abilities are much higher than the average guy I would have to say. From the cars that you build/built and for your on track performance as well. Everyone knew you and your cars.....I know we did....We were a small engine shop and tried to promote the business and field a couple of cars in various classes. We did not have the budget for it I can tell you that and we did work hard. My friend and co-workers C/SM car (Dennis Siderko), qualified #3 at E-Town behind Billy Mansell and Garley Daniels one year and we were subsequently tossed in teardown for some marks further than 1/2" into the intake port. It was a real arbitrary call and we agrued it for a longtime but got nowhere. That single event was very devastating to our efforts. We continued but it was never the same after that. Many of the guys I recall were garage owners or other various automotive business owners. The guys running at the top of the category like Arlen Fadley were a long way from many of the weekend racers. We did pretty well here and there but it was tough to keep up and the amount of time and work needed was real tough to sustain.........nice talking to you.....Rich

[SPS]

Rich:
Thanks for the accolades.

It sure was fun ...and yes, probably a ton of work but worth every minute. I really believe everybody involved appreciated the work each other was doing.

Racing in Modified with the likes of Paul Mercure, Arlen Fadely, the late Larry Kopp, Bob Kamp, Don Coonce, and so many others is one of the best memories I have in drag racing.

FJ

[BlueOval Ralph]

The guys running at the top of the category like Arlen Fadley were a long way from many of the weekend racers

This couldn't be futher from the truth, I worked at Ford the same time Fadely raced the Maverick and would go with him some of the time, He worked at Fords during the day and on the car in his spare time which was day and night.He built his own engines, trans & rearends at home in Flat Rock, The Ramcharges did all the engine machine work, Batten did the heads and airflow, LocMachine in Taylor did major maching. He (we took vaction on Fridays and Mondays so we could go the Points Meets and National Events. The last yeaar he ran the car 1978 before it was sold to Mike Edwards he alot of help from John Bujenski (from the old Seibert & Bujenski fame) and in fact was parnters with hime when they ran the Mopar Dragster in 79 & 80. If you go back in time most if not all the Modified Racers were Weekend Racers.
Ralph






V

Originally Posted by Rich Biebel

FJ...I guess it is mostly how commited you are to the sport. Your abilities are much higher than the average guy I would have to say. From the cars that you build/built and for your on track performance as well. Everyone knew you and your cars.....I know we did....We were a small engine shop and tried to promote the business and field a couple of cars in various classes. We did not have the budget for it I can tell you that and we did work hard. My friend and co-workers C/SM car (Dennis Siderko), qualified #3 at E-Town behind Billy Mansell and Garley Daniels one year and we were subsequently tossed in teardown for some marks further than 1/2" into the intake port. It was a real arbitrary call and we agrued it for a longtime but got nowhere. That single event was very devastating to our efforts. We continued but it was never the same after that. Many of the guys I recall were garage owners or other various automotive business owners. The guys running at the top of the category like Arlen Fadley were a long way from many of the weekend racers. We did pretty well here and there but it was tough to keep up and the amount of time and work needed was real tough to sustain.........nice talking to you.....Rich

[rx dealer]

BlueOval Ralph or anyone, Do you remember a 69 camaro that ran in D/gas? on the door it said Guth & Gugowski (sp) that car was light blue and had a 427 with hemi 4 speed and a dana. It ran out of the Dearborn Michigan area. It ran at Milan, Tri City dragway , and Central Mich Dragway ( mid mich motorplex ) and many tracks at in the Midwest. I used to own that car and it turned out to be built by Wally Booth and similar to his Rat Pack camaro. I sold that car and I wish I still had it, I always wonder what happened to that car. Any photo's or info would be great..Luke Awdish

[Robert Swartz]

Originally Posted by SPS

Robert/ Rich:

I think that most of us involved at the time would argue about the cost or sophistication of the Modified cars of the time. {yes, this was 30 years ago, not today} . These were well-built cars , as good as the parts available.
Examples would be Arlen Fadley's Maverick,{one of my toughest competitors}, arguably one of the first body-in-white cars ever built. Or my own Camaro, built in the mid 70's with a 4-link under the stock floor and stock frame rails {within the rules of the time}.

Remember, we raced at least 3 times a week and made probably 4 times as many runs a year as today.

I don't agree that it took buckets of money to race or be competitive as I sure didn't have a lot.. Instead , hard work and determination was the key to success. No crying when you got beat. Instead you went home and went to work. {sometimes I'm amazed we did that much work}

One of the best parts in my memory of Modified was the recognition by your competition when you ran well. No hard feelings here, just excellent competition by a close-knit group of racers with the same competitive spirit.

FJ

FJ,

Gonna agree with Rich here again. You were one of the best and I too, consider you above the average for racers of that and any era.

I'll respectfully disagree with the money aspect , from both my and a friends perspective that campaigned a couple of modifieds. I won't argue with you regarding the work part. You always had to work on these things. Both to make them run, as well as the constant maintenance they required.

Here in my neck of the woods, a good friend of mine, Toby Meek, built a Boss 302 powered Maverick. Never could get that thing to run faster than an 11.90. Later in the 70's he and his brother built a D/MC Pinto with the 2000cc engine. That one was respectable, took alot of work to get it there. By the time they got it to work, the class was dissolved. My own attempt was a 67 Mustang, that I never had the money to purchase the right parts for. The 289 Windsor just didn't have the parts availability they enjoy today. It sure taught me how to fix things. That thing could destroy everything from the clutch on back.

Someone else asked about flywheels. I had a 50lb Weber behind mine. Worst thing I tried was a solid center Ram clutch, that thing was brutal.

Robert Swartz