Next Debate.

[bill dedman]

I have no dog in any of these hunts, and won't, but I have some experience as regards supercharging and its effect on performance that might be of some interest.

I ran my car, a daily-driver, sometimes hobby-class drag strip, bracket car ('72 Valiant/360) with a very mild, normally-aspirated combination (475rpm idle) and ran 13.35 @ 102 mph with a 750cfm carb.
I decided that wasn't very exciting, so I made a change...
All I did to improve performance was to replace the 340 exhaust manifolds with headers, install an air gap-style intake manifold and a Vortech V-1, S-Trim (entry level, the smallest blower Vortech makes, I think).

The first time out for this new forced induction combination (yesterday,) the car ran 1,000-foot times of 9.74 @ 106 mph. That, according to the online computers I use, equates to a high 11-second quarter-mile e.t. (should be better, but it was very cold and there was no traction; 1.81-sec. 60-foots) with a quarter-mile speed extrapolated from the 106@ 1,000-feet, to 120, for the quarter-mile.

I am not claiming that these figures are etched in stone, but they were the most accurate 1,000-foot to quarter-mile conversions I could find.

This was with a measly 10 pounds of boost, and no intercooler.

So, basically, my car picked up virtually a second-and-a-half and 18 mph with this smallish blower, added by a shadetree, backyard mechanic (me) with no diagnostic equipment and truthfully, I haven't even set the timing with a light... just listened to it and adjusted the initial timing "by ear."

What I'm saying is, add a blower to an engine and you have access to a whole new world of power...

That's all.

The rules need to address this.

[GUMP]

Originally Posted by bill dedman

I have no dog in any of these hunts, and won't, but I have some experience as regards supercharging and its effect on performance that might be of some interest.

I ran my car, a daily-driver, sometimes hobby-class drag strip, bracket car ('72 Valiant/360) with a very mild, normally-aspirated combination (475rpm idle) and ran 13.35 @ 102 mph with a 750cfm carb.
I decided that wasn't very exciting, so I made a change...
All I did to improve performance was to replace the 340 exhaust manifolds with headers, install an air gap-style intake manifold and a Vortech V-1, S-Trim (entry level, the smallest blower Vortech makes, I think).

The first time out for this new forced induction combination (yesterday,) the car ran 1,000-foot times of 9.74 @ 106 mph. That, according to the online computers I use, equates to a high 11-second quarter-mile e.t. (should be better, but it was very cold and there was no traction; 1.81-sec. 60-foots) with a quarter-mile speed extrapolated from the 106@ 1,000-feet, to 120, for the quarter-mile.

I am not claiming that these figures are etched in stone, but they were the most accurate 1,000-foot to quarter-mile conversions I could find.

This was with a measly 10 pounds of boost, and no intercooler.

So, basically, my car picked up virtually a second-and-a-half and 18 mph with this smallish blower, added by a shadetree, backyard mechanic (me) with no diagnostic equipment and truthfully, I haven't even set the timing with a light... just listened to it and adjusted the initial timing "by ear."

What I'm saying is, add a blower to an engine and you have access to a whole new world of power...

That's all.

The rules need to address this.

I really don't get the point of this post. We all know that forced induction is a performance modification.

[bill dedman]

GUMP,
All I was saying is, if an idiot like me can bolt on 150 horsepower in his backyard under a shade tree, so-to-speak, for a first time out run, with no experience, what must a factory effort be able to accomplish, and there are no RULES to deal with it.

Pulley sizes that determine boost, and therefore horsepower, need to be addressed SOMEWHERE, don't you think? They're not, as far as I can see.... There appears to be NOTHING in the 2009 rulebook about this.

NHRA needs to get with it; it ain't 1955 any more... That was my point.

[Oclk Dlux]

If you want to control boost in either the FI turbo or supercharged cars, simply limit the injector size to stock. Easy for tech to inspect and will definitely limit how much boost one can run, regardless of calibration or fuel pressure.

Those with carbs would be exempt. Especially if they are intelligent enough to make them work :^)

Rich

[GUMP]

Originally Posted by Oclk Dlux

If you want to control boost in either the FI turbo or supercharged cars, simply limit the injector size to stock. Easy for tech to inspect and will definitely limit how much boost one can run, regardless of calibration or fuel pressure.

Those with carbs would be exempt. Especially if they are intelligent enough to make them work :^)

Rich

That is an unfair suggestion. And to top that, it would be an almost impossible task to verify fuel injectors.

[GUMP]

Originally Posted by bill dedman

Pulley sizes that determine boost, and therefore horsepower, need to be addressed SOMEWHERE, don't you think? They're not, as far as I can see.... There appears to be NOTHING in the 2009 rulebook about this.

I think that is what I said in post #6 of this thread.

[bill dedman]

Originally Posted by GUMP

I think that is what I said in post #6 of this thread.

"A good start would be to police pulley sizes on super charged cars."

THAT is what you said.

What ~I~ said was that the problem has not been addressed and that there are no rules in the Rulebook relative to the problem, and there aren't.

You can't "police" something if it's not breaking any rules. No rules yet exist that relate to boost or pulley sizes.

I was contending that NHRA needs to MAKE some rules that would specify SOMETHING concrete for them to "police."

But, until they (NHRA) do, there's nothing going to happen. Guaranteed.