My First Look at the CJ's - Page 4

Ken Miele · 03-14-2009, 09:58 AM

Alan, I respect your opinion, but I do not agree with it. If your read my post, I said its about selling cars. Its always about selling cars. But if racers can benefit, I think its good. You talk about the little guy, well I hate to tell you this but stock is not a cheap class to run especially in the upper classes. As I cruise the pits in Gainesville, the average racing operation is well over $100,000. There is lots of money out there in spite of the economy. Racing its not like the sixties were you took you new car, put slicks and headers and went to the track. Like it or not Alan, the little guy is going to have a tough time trying to race NHRA. There are some slow combos that probably can be run for under $50,000 for there whole operation, but that's not happing in the upper classes.

I have never fooled myself about corporate America, but I, unlike you, do let something I have no control over bring me down. Like Bob Frey once told me. If you can't control something why worry about it, if you can, then there is nothing to worry about.

Fight the good fight Alan according to what you believe, but I will make the best out of what has been offered to us. NHRA may not be perfect, but its the only game in town. I can not imagine how hard it is to run an organization of this size. We all beat them up, but until I walk in there shoes I really have no right to question there decision, only try to give them advice.

Earle Holt · 03-14-2009, 10:13 AM

Absolutely Ken. It's always been about selling cars..."win on Sunday, sell on Monday." I think Ford sees an opening right now when other car Co's are pulling back, Ford is stepping in to take market share and build a new following...good for them!

Futhermore, NHRA stock/superstock are still the best classes in drag racing...along with Comp eliminator.

Larry Hill · 03-14-2009, 10:45 AM

Ken That sounds like a FUN thing to do.

To make it interesting I will run my car off of the 6/29/72 engine blue print specs. and you need to run yours from the 6/26/74 specs.

This should limit the "enhancements" and allow us to have a lot of FUN!

Let me know what you think

Larry

Ken Miele · 03-14-2009, 11:26 AM

Larry, I don't want to give up my enhancements. You win this round. Its to much work to go back to those days.

Seriously Larry, I think your combo should have the same enhancements I have. I do not have a problem with any combo that can get the best parts. Its not right, but you could always build a Shelby and then we could have a good battle, you can even paint it pink.

Start working on NHRA for some aluminum heads, who knows they might be in the giving mode.

Larry Hill · 03-14-2009, 11:40 AM

Thanks, Ken. I needed a smile on this cold, rainy day! Are you coming to Belle Rose since you are already south? We can sit around and drink beer and you can tell me how they do it up north!

For us to get some better parts, I need the picture of Jim and the goat!

Larry

Alan Roehrich · 03-14-2009, 01:16 PM

Ken,
I'm well aware of how much it costs to run Stock, in fact, I'm painfully aware. I probably will not be able to field a car on my own, at least not in the foreseeable future. I drove a car last year that belonged to a friend I do a lot of work for. That car is gone, and I won't have a ride for a while, maybe a long while, who knows. But believe me, I know exactly what it costs to build an upper class car that runs a decent number. I know exactly what it costs to buy a motorhome and a trailer, or a dooley and a living quarters trailer.

I'm actually glad that there are guys like the ones you meet and you deal with, those guys really are car lovers and gear heads. Those guys I like, regardless of brand. It does not matter who they work for. Those guys are not corporate America.

It is their bosses that are corporate America that will do the harm. The guys in the board rooms and the stock holders' meetings are the ones who have the final say, and they have only one thing in mind, money. Their only interest is how much money they can make, and they don't care how they make it.

The corporate view from a manufacturer on sportsman racing is no different than the corporate view from NHRA on sportsman racing. How good a job has NHRA been doing at taking care of Stock?

Don't get me wrong, it would be nice if all that it took to help Stock was some corporate interest and some corporate cash. But what Stock needs is more participation and even more important, more spectator interest. A few "new" cars and a couple of big splashes in the media won't do it. The only people that will attract will be yawning 15 minutes later, and 30 minutes later they'll be looking for something else new.

There's not going to be any "magic pill" in the form of a "rebirth of the factory HP wars of the sixties" to save Stock. And when the new wears off of it, that money will be gone, and so will the people it drew. But worse yet, the people that were already here, and got turned off or run off, will be gone, and they won't come back.

Look at how many people have left when something came along and rendered their stuff obsolete, and never came back. Even the people with plenty of money, who have $200K in a racing operation, are going to have $75K of it become obsolete. That $75K becomes $30K overnight. And then they'll need to spend another $75K to be competitive again. You can bet more of them will leave than will pony up. Then what?

And there aren't too many from the next generations who have $200K to jump in, and even if they do, most of them are not inclined to do so.

The only people who can help Stock and Super Stock now are the racers and their real friends. The "big three" aren't going to save us, regardless of how nice and wonderful that would be.

Colin Wigle · 03-14-2009, 01:52 PM

Alan,

Who has EVER gave you the idea that the OEMs were trying to save stock?

I think it is great that the OEMs are giving recognition and appreciation to the sportsman racers. Sounds like a good marketing tool for both of us. Your constant voiced negativity towards NHRA and corporate America IMO will be the thing that destroys the hobby that you love.

Colin

Alan Roehrich · 03-14-2009, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cwigle

Alan,

Who has EVER gave you the idea that the OEMs were trying to save stock?

I think it is great that the OEMs are giving recognition and appreciation to the sportsman racers. Sounds like a good marketing tool for both of us. Your constant voiced negativity towards NHRA and corporate America IMO will be the thing that destroys the hobby that you love.

Colin

Colin,
Several people have voiced the opinion that the new interest of the OEMs will be the thing that helps Stock. I disagree.

I'm not completely negative on NHRA, when they are right I give them credit, when they are wrong, I say so. The same applies to corporate America. When they are right, they are right, and they deserve credit for it. When they are wrong they are wrong, and deserve to be called out for it. A wise man once said, "Remain silent when things are wrong and you are part of the problem."

I have to ask, as I haven't seen one, has Ford made ANY commercials to be shown on TV featuring the new CJ, and especially John Calvert winning Pomona with one in the debut race? I'm looking at it from a marketing stand point. In fact, that is exactly the point I'm looking at it from.

GUMP · 03-14-2009, 02:27 PM

I wonder how much the "corporate" guys actually had to do with these cars? I bet it took a lot to get them past the bean counters. I really doubt that the bean counters and shareholders were the driving force behind a project that is this small.

Colin Wigle · 03-14-2009, 02:37 PM

Alan,

I do not no of any TV commercials of the sort, There was some nice articles printed within the racing world though. I would think that at the events this year it would be played up, that is were the largest fan base is. It’s the little things that make a difference Last year at Indy I received a phone call from Brian Wolfe congratulating me on my efforts for class; I did not win but gave it my best effort. That sort of thing goes a long way for me.

Colin

03-14-2009, 09:58 AM	#31
Ken Miele Live Reporter Join Date: Dec 2000 Posts: 4,860 Likes: 456 Liked 16,520 Times in 1,521 Posts	Re: My First Look at the CJ's Alan, I respect your opinion, but I do not agree with it. If your read my post, I said its about selling cars. Its always about selling cars. But if racers can benefit, I think its good. You talk about the little guy, well I hate to tell you this but stock is not a cheap class to run especially in the upper classes. As I cruise the pits in Gainesville, the average racing operation is well over $100,000. There is lots of money out there in spite of the economy. Racing its not like the sixties were you took you new car, put slicks and headers and went to the track. Like it or not Alan, the little guy is going to have a tough time trying to race NHRA. There are some slow combos that probably can be run for under $50,000 for there whole operation, but that's not happing in the upper classes. I have never fooled myself about corporate America, but I, unlike you, do let something I have no control over bring me down. Like Bob Frey once told me. If you can't control something why worry about it, if you can, then there is nothing to worry about. Fight the good fight Alan according to what you believe, but I will make the best out of what has been offered to us. NHRA may not be perfect, but its the only game in town. I can not imagine how hard it is to run an organization of this size. We all beat them up, but until I walk in there shoes I really have no right to question there decision, only try to give them advice.

03-14-2009, 10:13 AM	#32
Earle Holt Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 194 Likes: 1 Liked 4 Times in 1 Post	Re: My First Look at the CJ's Absolutely Ken. It's always been about selling cars..."win on Sunday, sell on Monday." I think Ford sees an opening right now when other car Co's are pulling back, Ford is stepping in to take market share and build a new following...good for them! Futhermore, NHRA stock/superstock are still the best classes in drag racing...along with Comp eliminator. __________________ Earle Holt 1055 Stock

03-14-2009, 10:45 AM	#33
Larry Hill Live Reporter Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Hickory, Ky Posts: 10,629 Likes: 1,919 Liked 10,678 Times in 2,221 Posts	Re: My First Look at the CJ's Ken That sounds like a FUN thing to do. To make it interesting I will run my car off of the 6/29/72 engine blue print specs. and you need to run yours from the 6/26/74 specs. This should limit the "enhancements" and allow us to have a lot of FUN! Let me know what you think Larry __________________ IHM Used Parts https://ihmusedparts.com 888-821-1817

03-14-2009, 11:26 AM	#34
Ken Miele Live Reporter Join Date: Dec 2000 Posts: 4,860 Likes: 456 Liked 16,520 Times in 1,521 Posts	Re: My First Look at the CJ's Larry, I don't want to give up my enhancements. You win this round. Its to much work to go back to those days. Seriously Larry, I think your combo should have the same enhancements I have. I do not have a problem with any combo that can get the best parts. Its not right, but you could always build a Shelby and then we could have a good battle, you can even paint it pink. Start working on NHRA for some aluminum heads, who knows they might be in the giving mode.

03-14-2009, 11:40 AM	#35
Larry Hill Live Reporter Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Hickory, Ky Posts: 10,629 Likes: 1,919 Liked 10,678 Times in 2,221 Posts	Re: My First Look at the CJ's Thanks, Ken. I needed a smile on this cold, rainy day! Are you coming to Belle Rose since you are already south? We can sit around and drink beer and you can tell me how they do it up north! For us to get some better parts, I need the picture of Jim and the goat! Larry __________________ IHM Used Parts https://ihmusedparts.com 888-821-1817

03-14-2009, 01:16 PM	#36
Alan Roehrich Veteran Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Murfreesboro TN Posts: 5,104 Likes: 1,560 Liked 1,784 Times in 407 Posts	Re: My First Look at the CJ's Ken, I'm well aware of how much it costs to run Stock, in fact, I'm painfully aware. I probably will not be able to field a car on my own, at least not in the foreseeable future. I drove a car last year that belonged to a friend I do a lot of work for. That car is gone, and I won't have a ride for a while, maybe a long while, who knows. But believe me, I know exactly what it costs to build an upper class car that runs a decent number. I know exactly what it costs to buy a motorhome and a trailer, or a dooley and a living quarters trailer. I'm actually glad that there are guys like the ones you meet and you deal with, those guys really are car lovers and gear heads. Those guys I like, regardless of brand. It does not matter who they work for. Those guys are not corporate America. It is their bosses that are corporate America that will do the harm. The guys in the board rooms and the stock holders' meetings are the ones who have the final say, and they have only one thing in mind, money. Their only interest is how much money they can make, and they don't care how they make it. The corporate view from a manufacturer on sportsman racing is no different than the corporate view from NHRA on sportsman racing. How good a job has NHRA been doing at taking care of Stock? Don't get me wrong, it would be nice if all that it took to help Stock was some corporate interest and some corporate cash. But what Stock needs is more participation and even more important, more spectator interest. A few "new" cars and a couple of big splashes in the media won't do it. The only people that will attract will be yawning 15 minutes later, and 30 minutes later they'll be looking for something else new. There's not going to be any "magic pill" in the form of a "rebirth of the factory HP wars of the sixties" to save Stock. And when the new wears off of it, that money will be gone, and so will the people it drew. But worse yet, the people that were already here, and got turned off or run off, will be gone, and they won't come back. Look at how many people have left when something came along and rendered their stuff obsolete, and never came back. Even the people with plenty of money, who have $200K in a racing operation, are going to have $75K of it become obsolete. That $75K becomes $30K overnight. And then they'll need to spend another $75K to be competitive again. You can bet more of them will leave than will pony up. Then what? And there aren't too many from the next generations who have $200K to jump in, and even if they do, most of them are not inclined to do so. The only people who can help Stock and Super Stock now are the racers and their real friends. The "big three" aren't going to save us, regardless of how nice and wonderful that would be. __________________ Alan Roehrich 212A G/S

03-14-2009, 01:52 PM	#37
Colin Wigle Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 50 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: My First Look at the CJ's Alan, Who has EVER gave you the idea that the OEMs were trying to save stock? I think it is great that the OEMs are giving recognition and appreciation to the sportsman racers. Sounds like a good marketing tool for both of us. Your constant voiced negativity towards NHRA and corporate America IMO will be the thing that destroys the hobby that you love. Colin

03-14-2009, 02:27 PM	#39
GUMP VIP Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Shelby, NC Posts: 1,817 Likes: 2,153 Liked 2,336 Times in 549 Posts	Re: My First Look at the CJ's I wonder how much the "corporate" guys actually had to do with these cars? I bet it took a lot to get them past the bean counters. I really doubt that the bean counters and shareholders were the driving force behind a project that is this small.

03-14-2009, 02:37 PM	#40
Colin Wigle Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 50 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: My First Look at the CJ's Alan, I do not no of any TV commercials of the sort, There was some nice articles printed within the racing world though. I would think that at the events this year it would be played up, that is were the largest fan base is. It’s the little things that make a difference Last year at Indy I received a phone call from Brian Wolfe congratulating me on my efforts for class; I did not win but gave it my best effort. That sort of thing goes a long way for me. Colin Last edited by Colin Wigle; 03-15-2009 at 08:55 AM. Reason: spelling for Wayne