"WHAT IF" part 4

[Jim Wahl]

You know Terry I avoid calling anyone a liar at all costs, so I will just let others make up their own minds on this one. So you are just out for FWD competitors own good huh? Make it easier for them to win you say? Then why did you post this in the H.A.M.B. forum? Hummmm?

"Well it sounds good for old guys like us and I started the "Pure stock" class in IHRA years ago when I worked for them for 22 years with basicly the same rules except unfortunatly its open for the newer cars also. There is so much bitching and complaining any more that Im having my doubts that I will continue with a sportsman association. If it does come to be then the "pure stock" class will be included with a name change to "Jr. Stock" and maybe limit the year to 1971 max. Right now the catagory starts at 8 lbs per HP and goes 15 lbs per HP in full lb breaks (8, 9, 10, 11, etc.. If you read the comments on the racers forum then you know what I'm talking about. The FWD (slugs) cars a joke when it comes to spectator intrest."

Thank you once again for proving my point Terry. I think I speak for all FWD competitors, Please,don't do us any favors. Insert fork now. Jim

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by Jim Wahl

You know Terry I avoid calling anyone a liar at all costs, so I will just let others make up their own minds on this one. So you are just out for FWD competitors own good huh? Make it easier for them to win you say? Then why did you post this in the H.A.M.B. forum? Hummmm?

"Well it sounds good for old guys like us and I started the "Pure stock" class in IHRA years ago when I worked for them for 22 years with basicly the same rules except unfortunatly its open for the newer cars also. There is so much bitching and complaining any more that Im having my doubts that I will continue with a sportsman association. If it does come to be then the "pure stock" class will be included with a name change to "Jr. Stock" and maybe limit the year to 1971 max. Right now the catagory starts at 8 lbs per HP and goes 15 lbs per HP in full lb breaks (8, 9, 10, 11, etc.. If you read the comments on the racers forum then you know what I'm talking about. The FWD (slugs) cars a joke when it comes to spectator intrest."

Thank you once again for proving my point Terry. I think I speak for all FWD competitors, Please,don't do us any favors. Insert fork now. Jim

Because all you do is "BITCH AND COMPLAIN" and do your really think for a second that anyone in the grand stands likes to watch a FWD car or even cares?. Be honest..... I doubt it. Be happy with what you have now. The average spectator wants to see a show of some sort for his dollar. Without spectators you have nothing. Thats exactly why they vacate the stands when you guys run. They have better things to do and are not interested. You can quote me all you want as I just dont care anymore. I went thru this crap when Top Stock was started years ago with all of the whinning and complainning and I just dont need it or you. Have a nice life.

[buzzinhalfdozen]

Congrats fellas sounds like you've managed to kill this thing before it's born. Thank you. Same old story, 'You have to let Johnny play" even if he can't hit the ball, shoot the basket, ect. It's small wonder the HRA's haven't shown us the door. Yes there will be people who feel they are being excluded, or not being treated fairly, welcome to LIFE. Sorta makes me want to go Sat. nite bracket bracket racing or golfing, their both just as exciting. Joe

[junior barns]

Please look at the title to this thread

"WHAT IF"

Terry Bell

I appreciate what you doing here (dicussing how to save our sport and possibly how to save us from ourselves) If you and your partner were to pull something like this off I would definitley support it!!

Jim Wahl

"The FWD (slugs) cars a joke when it comes to spectator intrest"

I dont look at this as a slam from Terry on the FWD cars. Its the spetator interest part that he is talking about so lets not get to personal here.


buzzinhalfdozen

Sorta makes me want to go Sat. nite bracket bracket racing or golfing, their both just as exciting. Joe

Been doing this for the past 5 yrs! Alot less expensive and the only bitching is me about my own golf game

[Ed Wright]

Personally, I'm just glad I have a place to play right now. The "HRAs" have to be tired of hearing this stuff, sounds like nobody is happy with anything. We are so high maintence with all the tech issues I'm suprised they have not done away with us by now. The hard working tech officials are constantly complained about, they must really love this stuff to put up with the B.S. I can't imagine no officials reading or hearing about this. They could fill the place up with bracket cars and have less expense with far fewer tech problems and fewer workers. It is so dumbed down now with soft indexes a monkey could make one run under. Seems like everybody wants a rules advantage for themselves.

[Dick Butler]

Terry, Good Luck starting an Association. Dont forget to use your best judgement to create YOUR idea of where it should go and as you already see the vocal minority will never agree.(on anything) You still need to keep the GOAL in sight and if it cannot attract the people you will know you tried with good intentions.
If a sport with 10 classes with excitement and color and appeal could be created for the Spectator appeal it can draw people to create a car to compete. If they dont care to adapt to the racing they can stay with the HRAs and complain. The HRAs listened too much and dumbed down their segment of racing to where it is today.. Bracket racing class cars with MASSIVE expensive modifications in front of empty grand stands....
Come on Fords and Dodges.....

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

Terry, Good Luck starting an Association. Dont forget to use your best judgement to create YOUR idea of where it should go and as you already see the vocal minority will never agree.(on anything) You still need to keep the GOAL in sight and if it cannot attract the people you will know you tried with good intentions.
If a sport with 10 classes with excitement and color and appeal could be created for the Spectator appeal it can draw people to create a car to compete. If they dont care to adapt to the racing they can stay with the HRAs and complain. The HRAs listened too much and dumbed down their segment of racing to where it is today.. Bracket racing class cars with MASSIVE expensive modifications in front of empty grand stands....
Come on Fords and Dodges.....

Do not forget one important thing. If this becomes a reality it is not my ideas or my association. Its YOURS....the legal class sportsman racers. I was only "Thinking outloud" and all of a sudden I recieve all of these attacks and I expressed MY opinions in return. It seems that if you like RED cars and someone on here likes BLUE cars everything you say or do is all wrong an an offense to someone else who likes another "color" of race car. I NEVER said anyone was going to be left out or made non competetive. Im always "Fishing" for ideas and response but everyone who reads this stuff and loves stock and S/S racing needs to think about what can you (we) do to attract spectators and a fan base. The way it is now just is NOT working and as Dick says and its been "DUMBED DOWN" for years and the only people who watch our kind of racing are either family, friends, or a very small percentage who understand the stock and S/S concept. . Anything new cannot be exactly like NHRA or IHRA has now. With all of the tech issues (IF the HRA's continue inspecting cars) and (what happened to the "lets weigh pistons and rods?) the legal class cars have become a liability and a pain in the butt. Again....READ what Chuck Norton wrote about class racing and think about it. My 3 cents worth.

[art leong]

Originally Posted by X-TECH MAN

Do not forget one important thing. If this becomes a reality it is not my ideas or my association. Its YOURS....the legal class sportsman racers. I was only "Thinking outloud" and all of a sudden I recieve all of these attacks and I expressed MY opinions in return. It seems that if you like RED cars and someone on here likes BLUE cars everything you say or do is all wrong an an offense to someone else who likes another "color" of race car. I NEVER said anyone was going to be left out or made non competetive. Im always "Fishing" for ideas and response but everyone who reads this stuff and loves stock and S/S racing needs to think about what can you (we) do to attract spectators and a fan base. The way it is now just is NOT working and as Dick says and its been "DUMBED DOWN" for years and the only people who watch our kind of racing are either family, friends, or a very small percentage who understand the stock and S/S concept. . Anything new cannot be exactly like NHRA or IHRA has now. With all of the tech issues (IF the HRA's continue inspecting cars) and (what happened to the "lets weigh pistons and rods?) the legal class cars have become a liability and a pain in the butt. Again....READ what Chuck Norton wrote about class racing and think about it. My 3 cents worth.

Terry I think your ideas were a lot more than red cars vs. blue cars. It seems to me you and Dick Butler have dreamed up this 10 class senario (or something very similar).
You should take a lesson from top stock. It has not taken off the way you wanted it to. I think you thought it would obsolete stock as it is now.
To have a lot of classes gives "EVERYONE" a chance to compete not just those with deep pockets.
Just listen to all the complaining on here about the Mustangs and Challengers. Why don't everybody go and buy one? Everyone agrees they are going to be impossible to beat in their class.

[treessavoy]

Originally Posted by X-TECH MAN

Because all you do is "BITCH AND COMPLAIN" and do your really think for a second that anyone in the grand stands likes to watch a FWD car or even cares?. Be honest..... I doubt it. Be happy with what you have now. The average spectator wants to see a show of some sort for his dollar. Without spectators you have nothing. Thats exactly why they vacate the stands when you guys run. They have better things to do and are not interested. You can quote me all you want as I just dont care anymore. I went thru this crap when Top Stock was started years ago with all of the whinning and complainning and I just dont need it or you. Have a nice life.

Gentlemen,

You're arguing a moot point. For the last 5 years I've laid out of class racing but have been to a number of national and regional events as a spectator.

After the fuel cars run a good 50% of the people leave the stands for the hot dog stand, when you guy's run the only people that are left in the stands are your crew and relatives and guys like me that appreciate the classes. So, what difference does it make how fast or slow the car goes a vast majority are still eating their hot dogs and watching John Force and crew go through their antics.

I would bet that 90% of fans have absolutely no idea the dynamics of our classes. I always heard people ask why one car leaves before the other, comments on how slow the cars were including the upper class cars, and they don't understand how the slower car could win.

Our part of the show just is not spectator friendly unless they are extremely knowledgeable, so arguing about the fwd's being slow are moot...the fans think all our cars are slow...although some like watching us for the wheel stands we do.

How I see it.

Jim

[Lynn A McCarty]

Originally Posted by treessavoy

Gentlemen,

You're arguing a moot point. For the last 5 years I've laid out of class racing but have been to a number of national and regional events as a spectator.
Jim

Firstly, I agree arguing is not productive, but America is all about a healthy debate. It is what we do. Secondly, take all the real cars out of the events and there is no cool cars to see in the pits. Ask Billy Meyers how well that worked in IHRA when he owned it. It failed miserably, not that they probably couldnt eliminate one class or another. I submit after watching those fuel cars the fans enjoy the most getting a great sausage and walking around to see all the cool cars. No cool cars, no sausage, no ticket sales. See one TF car you seen them all.