Pump gas vs. race gas question

Adger Smith · 07-31-2009, 09:24 AM

68,
You have a PM

Marvin Robinson · 08-01-2009, 08:53 AM

Deleted

Marvin Robinson · 08-01-2009, 09:04 AM

Adger,

I have the same questions about the timing loop info VP C-12 vs Shell 93. (Long night) My Olds is a '71 low-compression 455 in , so higher octane probably won't help, but NHRA Div and Nats Stock eliminator approved fuels don't include the unleaded race fuels so I can't use the 100 stuff.

In addition, have you done any testing on Rockett 111 and/or 114?

Thanx, Marvin

Adger Smith · 08-01-2009, 09:52 AM

Marvin,
Yes, I've had the Rocket 114 in a couple of customers engines. I like to tune with the fuel the customer can get in his area of the country. I have done back to back with VP C-14 & C-12 and rocket 114 in one of my customers (Chicago area) 385 fast burn crate engines. The tune up (jet and timing ) was different to get the best power and torque avg's. Keep an open mind about tuneups. What works for engine X may not work for engine Y.
Sometimes a customer will think his fuel is the best, but testing different fuels can prove them right or wrong. I'm not an advocate of any particular fuel as "The Best" . There are too many engine combinations that have different needs from the fuel for one brand or blend to fit all. Last time I checked VP made 52 different blends. That should tell you something about the needs in the fuel market. I know there are companies that just sell 3 or 4 blends. I don't think that covers ever need for every engine. I think that they are just working their slice of the market, or market share if you want to call it that. Low compression engines have different problems with fuel than extreme cylinder pressure engines. The burn rate to RPM and combustion chamber shape should be considered. I might add one thing. the heat range & type plug you use can have an effect on how the fuel burns.
Take your engine:
Low compression, probably low cylinder pressure too. Spark plug location is not in the best place and it has a very bad quench to bore ratio. (chamber is not real active) Piston speed & stroke should be considered too. I would try to find a low octane fast burn rate fuel that gets along with the extra heat a low compression large combustion chamber engine has. Then start testing what it likes as to timing and jetting to get the best power avg and BSFC's. Call around and talk to the fuel MFG's that are available in your area of the country. Listen to what they say & try to get past the sales pitch. :~)
Good luck,

SmallBlockNova · 08-03-2009, 02:51 PM

I have the same problem. My car is pretty inconsistent on Sunoco 93...But I can't just stick race gas in it because I still street drive it a lot and mixing fuels will really throw the air/fuel off...

David Ley · 08-03-2009, 04:56 PM

Marvin , VP C-10 is on the S/SS approved race fuels list and that IS unleaded.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marvin Robinson

Adger,

I have the same questions about the timing loop info VP C-12 vs Shell 93. (Long night) My Olds is a '71 low-compression 455 in , so higher octane probably won't help, but NHRA Div and Nats Stock eliminator approved fuels don't include the unleaded race fuels so I can't use the 100 stuff.

In addition, have you done any testing on Rockett 111 and/or 114?

Thanx, Marvin

chevy620 · 08-03-2009, 06:34 PM

I just got through a weekend using Chevron-Phillips 111. LT-1 ran better than it did on C12, ET-wise. Also came back to pits cooler.
Is it the best? Not sure but at $5.70 a gallon I like it better than $10.50 for C12 at LODRS events.

See ya at the stripe,

Jok

Chris DeGidio · 08-04-2009, 02:25 PM

I've been using the Sunoco GT 100 unleaded for 3 years with no issues.

07-31-2009, 09:24 AM	#1
Adger Smith VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Texarkana Ark/TX Posts: 2,446 Likes: 575 Liked 880 Times in 311 Posts	Re: Pump gas vs. race gas question 68, You have a PM __________________ Adger Smith (Former SS)

08-01-2009, 08:53 AM	#2
Marvin Robinson Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Gary, IN Posts: 139 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Deleted Last edited by Marvin Robinson; 08-04-2009 at 08:41 PM. Reason: Typo in question - deleted

08-01-2009, 09:04 AM	#3
Marvin Robinson Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Gary, IN Posts: 139 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Pump gas vs. race gas question Adger, I have the same questions about the timing loop info VP C-12 vs Shell 93. (Long night) My Olds is a '71 low-compression 455 in , so higher octane probably won't help, but NHRA Div and Nats Stock eliminator approved fuels don't include the unleaded race fuels so I can't use the 100 stuff. In addition, have you done any testing on Rockett 111 and/or 114? Thanx, Marvin

08-01-2009, 09:52 AM	#4
Adger Smith VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Texarkana Ark/TX Posts: 2,446 Likes: 575 Liked 880 Times in 311 Posts	Re: Pump gas vs. race gas question Marvin, Yes, I've had the Rocket 114 in a couple of customers engines. I like to tune with the fuel the customer can get in his area of the country. I have done back to back with VP C-14 & C-12 and rocket 114 in one of my customers (Chicago area) 385 fast burn crate engines. The tune up (jet and timing ) was different to get the best power and torque avg's. Keep an open mind about tuneups. What works for engine X may not work for engine Y. Sometimes a customer will think his fuel is the best, but testing different fuels can prove them right or wrong. I'm not an advocate of any particular fuel as "The Best" . There are too many engine combinations that have different needs from the fuel for one brand or blend to fit all. Last time I checked VP made 52 different blends. That should tell you something about the needs in the fuel market. I know there are companies that just sell 3 or 4 blends. I don't think that covers ever need for every engine. I think that they are just working their slice of the market, or market share if you want to call it that. Low compression engines have different problems with fuel than extreme cylinder pressure engines. The burn rate to RPM and combustion chamber shape should be considered. I might add one thing. the heat range & type plug you use can have an effect on how the fuel burns. Take your engine: Low compression, probably low cylinder pressure too. Spark plug location is not in the best place and it has a very bad quench to bore ratio. (chamber is not real active) Piston speed & stroke should be considered too. I would try to find a low octane fast burn rate fuel that gets along with the extra heat a low compression large combustion chamber engine has. Then start testing what it likes as to timing and jetting to get the best power avg and BSFC's. Call around and talk to the fuel MFG's that are available in your area of the country. Listen to what they say & try to get past the sales pitch. :~) Good luck, __________________ Adger Smith (Former SS)

08-03-2009, 02:51 PM	#5
SmallBlockNova Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Long Island Posts: 47 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Pump gas vs. race gas question I have the same problem. My car is pretty inconsistent on Sunoco 93...But I can't just stick race gas in it because I still street drive it a lot and mixing fuels will really throw the air/fuel off...

08-03-2009, 06:34 PM	#7
chevy620 Banned Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 188 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Pump gas vs. race gas question I just got through a weekend using Chevron-Phillips 111. LT-1 ran better than it did on C12, ET-wise. Also came back to pits cooler. Is it the best? Not sure but at $5.70 a gallon I like it better than $10.50 for C12 at LODRS events. See ya at the stripe, Jok

08-04-2009, 02:25 PM	#8
Chris DeGidio Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 364 Likes: 8 Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Pump gas vs. race gas question I've been using the Sunoco GT 100 unleaded for 3 years with no issues. __________________ Nautilus Racing