Making Aluminum Heads Legal for all SuperStockers

69ss/rs · 10-08-2009, 03:22 AM

Casper 68, that is what I have been saying. If you are planning on making the move in the future from Stock to SuperStock, you are going to have to pay alot of money to upgrade the heads you have now to be competitive. Saying that do you want to take the chance that those heads will not leak,crack or fall apart shortly after you have bolted them on. Or would you rather start with a new fresh set of heads. I have a 69 engine combo, so any heads that I use have to be produced before 70; and when you start welding , grinding and doing what they do on 30 plus year old stuff, you don't know what you will end up with.

69ss/rs · 10-08-2009, 03:49 AM

Mark Callanan, did you not read the original post; I said SuperStock, not Stock. I can tell you don't own a SuperStocker or you would know what I am talking about. If the manufacturers still produced these heads I wouldn't have a problem, but they don't. If you have and older combo the head supplies are getting limited along with the quality, and if NHRA doesn't address this issue soon than there won't be any older motor combos out there any more. So as you put it stepping up isn't the problem. Mopar is the only one that has stepped up by producing new old stock for the Hemi.

Ernie Neal · 10-08-2009, 07:00 AM

Definately no to the aluminum head suggestion. I don't where you get the cheap to repair thing. I had to get all my seats replaced with a better material for the seats were being beat into the aluminum. Ernie

PONTIAC'S REVENGE · 10-08-2009, 11:21 AM

Good question!

As I understand it, and it was true in our case, that the aluminum heads are only considered as a replacement when the heads are extremely rare and almost unattainable. To purchase a set of Pontiac hypo heads, for example, your looking at $3k-$4k for castings that more than likely have been welded or leak, if you can find them at all. I bought 3 sets before I could even start porting and it took 4 years to find them!!! The "don't go chrome it" car collector guys are all over that stuff making it very difficult to run your favorite combo.

I cant think of any logical reason to open it up to plentiful heads that you can still find readily attainable and affordable.

As a business owner I think NHRA should move this direction in certain cases on a strick individual basis. It took Lynn several years to get ours approved, but if you have a legitimate case and are persistent NHRA will listen.

As all these combos start getting older, I'd hate to see some of the older hypo cars disappear because the manufacturer is oob or unwilling to participate. Hats off to you guys that happen to have a manufacturer that willing to participate. Its way easier for NHRA to deal with an aftermarket company that's a potential sponsor. The big three are too busy trying to survive against all imports and the epa

Stacy McCarty
GTAA PONTIAC'S REVENGE

Mike Keener · 10-08-2009, 11:47 AM

Personally I don't see any problem with begining a blend of approved aluminum heads into the mix in SS as long as racers wishing to run their current iron headed combo's can run off their status quo index and HP factors. In other words if you want to run your 327-275 Chevy with iron heads- you can. If you elect to run the aluminum replacement head at a new HP factor that's fine as well.

What we don't want or need is being forced to build new heads to be competitive because of any rule change. This way everybody wins and the "have your cake and eat it too" theory is alive and well.

There are already plenty of classes where an aluminum head and a cast iron head combo already exist so in reality much of the system I speak of is already taking place. And, let's face it, sooner or later alumminum and cast iron replacement heads will have to be accepted for the very reasons Stacy pointed out in his thread.

I can certainly understand the reluctance of any racer not wishing to pour the cost to prep a set of competitive SS heads into a pair of 30 year old castings never knowing how long they will hold up.

Mike Keener

PONTIAC'S REVENGE · 10-08-2009, 01:24 PM

Al,
My friend just completed a Max Wedge 64 Belvedere. This is a great example, according to my friend, Chrysler makes a replacement head to this combo already but they use aftermarket companies to cast them I understand. The original was a #518 casting and the legal replacement is a #518m. So you see some of the "participating manufacturers" are already in the aftermarket arena. This keeps this oldy but cool combo alive!!! We tease him sometimes and call him "Mr Supercede"

We had an original set of 518 heads and they were good but not nearly as the revamped 518m. Bischoff made almost 800hp with that motor on the dyno last year. I think with some wideband tuning it'd go well over 800hp's. U should have heard this thing in the dyno it was WAY WICKED!!!!

What a cool factory race engine two fours giant ports buncha compression.

I had some respectable super stock racers tell me the combo was dead!! Not true, I think this car will go 9.50's in SS/DA If i can get him to lay into it a little.

I agree with Mike and the huge point is... how do the dead manufacturers like Pontiac Buick Olds AMC dont get any of that without the aftermarket companies???

Or any other combo that doesn't have a supercede or replacement that's hard to find or high dollar. Chrysler could stop making this 518m head, where would he be then??? What justification is there for others; I dont know somebody tell me. I also agree with Mike's point that the original combos need to be left alone for the guys already running them. The replacements need to come with horsepower if allowed especially if they're "better".

Stacy

X-TECH MAN · 10-08-2009, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PONTIAC'S REVENGE

Al,
My friend just completed a Max Wedge 64 Belvedere.

I had some respectable super stock racers tell me the combo was dead!! Not true, I think this car will go 9.50's in SS/DA If i can get him to lay into it a little.

Stacy

After all of that work and money spent on the Max Wedge the new blown Mustangs will still out run him with a stock elim. (?) engine. Is that traditional S/S racing?

Jeff Lee · 10-08-2009, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by X-TECH MAN

After all of that work and money spent on the Max Wedge the new blown Mustangs will still out run him with a stock elim. (?) engine. Is that traditional S/S racing?

The "standard" seems to be 5 HP penalty to use an aftermarket type head. I surely wouldn't have a problem with that.

9.50's in SS/DA? I'm hoping to go 9.60's in SS/H w/ my old AMC heads....

Stephen & Horace Johnson · 10-08-2009, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Lee

The "standard" seems to be 5 HP penalty to use an aftermarket type head. I surely wouldn't have a problem with that.

9.50's in SS/DA? I'm hoping to go 9.60's in SS/H w/ my old AMC heads....

I'd use that word "standard" careful when you say 5HP on aftermarket heads

Stephen Johnson #2162
Horace Johnson #2167
SS/D 427 Ford FairlaneNHRA-IHRA

PONTIAC'S REVENGE · 10-08-2009, 03:30 PM

Well,
I think the power adder engines are a different thread dont you?.

The real point is the guy is out racing and mixin it up instead of home dead in the garage because its the combo he grew up with and loves it. It may not be the fastest combo but its rated 415hp!!! That's alot of hp's for an inline valve motor wt a 208 intake valve.

Hat's off to bischoff for getn r done!!!

PS the replacement head flowed way better bout 320cfm intakes at 600" see pics on lynn's photo gallery

Now only if we can get the car out west so his brother will put his foot in it!!!!!

stacy

10-08-2009, 03:22 AM	#1
69ss/rs Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 82 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Making Aluminum Heads Legal for all SuperStockers Casper 68, that is what I have been saying. If you are planning on making the move in the future from Stock to SuperStock, you are going to have to pay alot of money to upgrade the heads you have now to be competitive. Saying that do you want to take the chance that those heads will not leak,crack or fall apart shortly after you have bolted them on. Or would you rather start with a new fresh set of heads. I have a 69 engine combo, so any heads that I use have to be produced before 70; and when you start welding , grinding and doing what they do on 30 plus year old stuff, you don't know what you will end up with.

10-08-2009, 07:00 AM	#3
Ernie Neal Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Columbus, Indiana Posts: 531 Likes: 169 Liked 328 Times in 80 Posts	Re: Making Aluminum Heads Legal for all SuperStockers Definately no to the aluminum head suggestion. I don't where you get the cheap to repair thing. I had to get all my seats replaced with a better material for the seats were being beat into the aluminum. Ernie

10-08-2009, 11:21 AM	#4
PONTIAC'S REVENGE Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: CARMEL, INDIANA Posts: 141 Likes: 69 Liked 48 Times in 18 Posts	Re: Making Aluminum Heads Legal for all SuperStockers Good question! As I understand it, and it was true in our case, that the aluminum heads are only considered as a replacement when the heads are extremely rare and almost unattainable. To purchase a set of Pontiac hypo heads, for example, your looking at $3k-$4k for castings that more than likely have been welded or leak, if you can find them at all. I bought 3 sets before I could even start porting and it took 4 years to find them!!! The "don't go chrome it" car collector guys are all over that stuff making it very difficult to run your favorite combo. I cant think of any logical reason to open it up to plentiful heads that you can still find readily attainable and affordable. As a business owner I think NHRA should move this direction in certain cases on a strick individual basis. It took Lynn several years to get ours approved, but if you have a legitimate case and are persistent NHRA will listen. As all these combos start getting older, I'd hate to see some of the older hypo cars disappear because the manufacturer is oob or unwilling to participate. Hats off to you guys that happen to have a manufacturer that willing to participate. Its way easier for NHRA to deal with an aftermarket company that's a potential sponsor. The big three are too busy trying to survive against all imports and the epa Stacy McCarty GTAA PONTIAC'S REVENGE

10-08-2009, 01:24 PM	#6
PONTIAC'S REVENGE Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: CARMEL, INDIANA Posts: 141 Likes: 69 Liked 48 Times in 18 Posts	Re: Making Aluminum Heads Legal for all SuperStockers Al, My friend just completed a Max Wedge 64 Belvedere. This is a great example, according to my friend, Chrysler makes a replacement head to this combo already but they use aftermarket companies to cast them I understand. The original was a #518 casting and the legal replacement is a #518m. So you see some of the "participating manufacturers" are already in the aftermarket arena. This keeps this oldy but cool combo alive!!! We tease him sometimes and call him "Mr Supercede" We had an original set of 518 heads and they were good but not nearly as the revamped 518m. Bischoff made almost 800hp with that motor on the dyno last year. I think with some wideband tuning it'd go well over 800hp's. U should have heard this thing in the dyno it was WAY WICKED!!!! What a cool factory race engine two fours giant ports buncha compression. I had some respectable super stock racers tell me the combo was dead!! Not true, I think this car will go 9.50's in SS/DA If i can get him to lay into it a little. I agree with Mike and the huge point is... how do the dead manufacturers like Pontiac Buick Olds AMC dont get any of that without the aftermarket companies??? Or any other combo that doesn't have a supercede or replacement that's hard to find or high dollar. Chrysler could stop making this 518m head, where would he be then??? What justification is there for others; I dont know somebody tell me. I also agree with Mike's point that the original combos need to be left alone for the guys already running them. The replacements need to come with horsepower if allowed especially if they're "better". Stacy Last edited by PONTIAC'S REVENGE; 10-08-2009 at 03:40 PM.

10-08-2009, 03:30 PM	#10
PONTIAC'S REVENGE Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: CARMEL, INDIANA Posts: 141 Likes: 69 Liked 48 Times in 18 Posts	Re: Making Aluminum Heads Legal for all SuperStockers Well, I think the power adder engines are a different thread dont you?. The real point is the guy is out racing and mixin it up instead of home dead in the garage because its the combo he grew up with and loves it. It may not be the fastest combo but its rated 415hp!!! That's alot of hp's for an inline valve motor wt a 208 intake valve. Hat's off to bischoff for getn r done!!! PS the replacement head flowed way better bout 320cfm intakes at 600" see pics on lynn's photo gallery Now only if we can get the car out west so his brother will put his foot in it!!!!! stacy

10-08-2009, 03:49 AM	#2
69ss/rs Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 82 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Making Aluminum Heads Legal for all SuperStockers Mark Callanan, did you not read the original post; I said SuperStock, not Stock. I can tell you don't own a SuperStocker or you would know what I am talking about. If the manufacturers still produced these heads I wouldn't have a problem, but they don't. If you have and older combo the head supplies are getting limited along with the quality, and if NHRA doesn't address this issue soon than there won't be any older motor combos out there any more. So as you put it stepping up isn't the problem. Mopar is the only one that has stepped up by producing new old stock for the Hemi.

10-08-2009, 11:47 AM	#5
Mike Keener Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 294 Likes: 102 Liked 24 Times in 13 Posts	Re: Making Aluminum Heads Legal for all SuperStockers Personally I don't see any problem with begining a blend of approved aluminum heads into the mix in SS as long as racers wishing to run their current iron headed combo's can run off their status quo index and HP factors. In other words if you want to run your 327-275 Chevy with iron heads- you can. If you elect to run the aluminum replacement head at a new HP factor that's fine as well. What we don't want or need is being forced to build new heads to be competitive because of any rule change. This way everybody wins and the "have your cake and eat it too" theory is alive and well. There are already plenty of classes where an aluminum head and a cast iron head combo already exist so in reality much of the system I speak of is already taking place. And, let's face it, sooner or later alumminum and cast iron replacement heads will have to be accepted for the very reasons Stacy pointed out in his thread. I can certainly understand the reluctance of any racer not wishing to pour the cost to prep a set of competitive SS heads into a pair of 30 year old castings never knowing how long they will hold up. Mike Keener __________________ Mike Keener A/S B/S C/SM