questions concerning christmas tree

[BobOrme]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

You THINK you will level the playing field, but do you have statistical data to prove it? Do you have definitive proof that an actual imbalance exists? Or do you simply see what you think is an inexcusable inequity?

The inequity is in first or worst. The current rules don't allow for a worst concerning a red light (unless the quicker car leaves before the tree is activated), therefore the slower dial-in car is at a disadvantage at the tree.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by BobOrme

The inequity is in first or worst. The current rules don't allow for a worst concerning a red light (unless the quicker car leaves before the tree is activated), therefore the slower dial-in car is at a disadvantage at the tree.

You can just as easily make the case that the faster car does not get a clean tree, and has to wait on the line longer, therefore the faster car is at a disadvantage at the tree.

[Michael Beard]

Originally Posted by bill dedman

I don't know anybody who is oblivious to a win light... but then, I don't know everybody. Maybe they could install a red light beside the win lights that would appear as the win light in the other lane comes on... a minor issue, at worst.

Um, me, I'm afraid... More than once I've been backing into guys at the stripe, get my timeslip, and discover they were red. Granted it's only been at one certain track where the win lights are hard to see, and 1/8th mile racing, where you don't have all day to look around while you're motoring down the track. Good practice anyway... right?

As for red lights on the scoreboard, a number of southern tracks actually have a row of colored lights on the scoreboard... red for red light, yellow for a breakout, blue for who got there first, green for a win. (May have mixed some of them up... all I remember is thinking, "Dang, there were a whole bunch of lights on my scoreboard, I must've won!" only to find out I 'got there first' and 'broke out'.)


This topic got completely away from the original poster's question in regard to how the tree is blinded anyway. The first or worst red light deal is going to be rehashed a million times this winter. No one of one mindset is going to change one of the opposing view.

Now, RE: tree blinders... I don't even notice. We were at Bristol for the World Footbrake Challenge, and about 3rd round, my buddy says, "Man! I just can't get a handle on the tree. There's no blinder." 'What are you talking about? Yes there is!' "NO, there's NOT!"... I go up for the next round... huh! No blinder. I don't know if I'm 1) that focused or 2) that unobservant. (See Win Lights, above)

Work on being 1) that focused or 2) that unobservant.

[Ed Wright]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

You can just as easily make the case that the faster car does not get a clean tree, and has to wait on the line longer, therefore the faster car is at a disadvantage at the tree.

Alan, you are correct. The slower class drivers don't have to deal with that, if they did they might have a different take on it. Besides the "dirty" tree, the other car leaving is a distraction. I'm about in the middle, I have to give some one second + spots, and get some one second + spots from the hood scoop SS cars. I much prefer leaving first so I have no distractions from the other side of the tree (especially at night) or the other car leaving. I now use a blinder to block the other side of the tree, but the other car moving still bothers me. Maybe the slow guys don't have to deal with that, so only see their side of the deal. I talked to Gary Stinnett at Ennis about him taking his blinders back off, and he said the same things about the other car leaving while watching your own side of the tree. I feel like the first/worst rule balances it out a little. Even though it takes away any control of the finish line, I like to leave first without the distractions. Change that rule, and I will REALLY like leaving first.

__________________________________________________ _____
Michael Beard said: Um, me, I'm afraid... More than once I've been backing into guys at the stripe, get my timeslip, and discover they were red. Granted it's only been at one certain track where the win lights are hard to see, and 1/8th mile racing, where you don't have all day to look around while you're motoring down the track. Good practice anyway... right?

Since going to blinders I have done that. More than one track. After doing that a couple fo times I've started trying to remember to check the score board for a win light when the front end comes back down, so maybe I will look a little less silly. Only a little less.

[John Kelley]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

You can just as easily make the case that the faster car does not get a clean tree, and has to wait on the line longer, therefore the faster car is at a disadvantage at the tree.

If your contentration is so bad that you need a "clean" tree then you can build a slower car !!
Or they can put blinders the tree......
The "clean tree" BS is so lame...........you need to work on your concentration !!!

[bill dedman]

The fact is, you cannot "legislate" rules to give an advantage to this car, or that car. The reason is, there is no way to quantify the advantage/disadvantage, so how do you know when it is "enough"????

It's easy to say, "Leaving on a clean tree is an advantage," and that may be true, but how about driving the stripe from behind, or owning a fast car that is unaffected by minor weather/wind changes that affect a slow car a lot, making it hard to dial in changing conditions; fast cars spin the tires; slow cars are usually inconsistent...
There is no end to this stuff.... and, trying to level the playing field by giving out advantages, is a lost cause; you'll never get it right.

A worse red light rule gives the advantage to NOBODY.

That's a big improvement over what we have now, it would seem to me.

[Ed Fernandez]

Originally Posted by John Kelley

It looks like you are "DUCKING" the issue.........:-)

The thread is a load of ****.Over 50 posts for a non issue.It's quite simple,you go green and race to the end.You go red and you lose.It's a 50/50 deal in the end on a red light.We have way more important issues of inequities in S/SS racing.Top of the list is PAYOUTS.Nobody is getting any momentum out of wanting better payouts down the line.A bracket racer gets more mileage out of crying for social justice for the "poor" slow guys who get the 1st chance to go red.
Someone start a pole to see how M cars and down feel we need a bracket racer to determine if the rule should be changed.
I can't wait to see what Crusader Rabbit's next campaign will be.

[bill dedman]

Ed,
When you say, "A bracket racer gets more mileage out of crying for social justice for the "poor" slow guys who get the 1st chance to go red." you prove, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that you have NO CLUE what this is all about.

You prove it by completely ignoring the real point of all this; it's NOT that the slower car has the first chance to go red; it's that if they DO, they have taken away the other car's chance to go red.

If you think that's fair, then there's no hope that you'll ever understand this.

I'd rather see a poll, than a "pole"... A pole wouldn't do much good, here...

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by Ed Fernandez

The thread is a load of ****.Over 50 posts for a non issue.It's quite simple,you go green and race to the end.You go red and you lose.It's a 50/50 deal in the end on a red light.We have way more important issues of inequities in S/SS racing.Top of the list is PAYOUTS.Nobody is getting any momentum out of wanting better payouts down the line.A bracket racer gets more mileage out of crying for social justice for the "poor" slow guys who get the 1st chance to go red.
Someone start a pole to see how M cars and down feel we need a bracket racer to determine if the rule should be changed.
I can't wait to see what Crusader Rabbit's next campaign will be.

Ed ,The fact of the matter is changes to the basic timing system affect way more than S/SS cars.
The 5 amber tree was changed to three, because supposedly it sped up the completion of National event on schedule. You notice it is now standard across the country.
Myself, I liked the 5 amber tree back in the 80's, with a stick shift FWD car. I had to learn to deal with the 3 amber deal.
NHRA and IHRA are going to do whatever they think is right for the sport in the long run, no matter what a couple of part time Stocker racers like you and I, think about it.
If the first red light loser becomes the worst r/l loser some time in the future, you 'll just have to deal with that too.
If you go red and then are awarded a win slip, the security folks will probably have to come and drag you back to the lanes for the next round, right?

[Ed Fernandez]

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

Ed ,The fact of the matter is changes to the basic timing system affect way more than S/SS cars.
The 5 amber tree was changed to three, because supposedly it sped up the completion of National event on schedule. You notice it is now standard across the country.
Myself, I liked the 5 amber tree back in the 80's, with a stick shift FWD car. I had to learn to deal with the 3 amber deal.
NHRA and IHRA are going to do whatever they think is right for the sport in the long run, no matter what a couple of part time Stocker racers like you and I, think about it.
If the first red light loser becomes the worst r/l loser some time in the future, you 'll just have to deal with that too.
If you go red and then are awarded a win slip, the security folks will probably have to come and drag you back to the lanes for the next round, right?

Mark.I'm not disputing the fact it affects everyone.But our friend Mr Dedman should be on the bracket racing section flapping his gums,not here where he has no dog in the fight.I'm sure NHRA hasn't given it a thought.Changes happen almost always by them listening to a small minority and thinking that something has to be done.Squeaky Wheel Syndrome. If the rule was changed I would race by the rules in force and happily take the win slip.But I'm comfortable with the rule as it is.I'm not comfortable with a lot of other procedues we race under,for example,payouts
and inconsistant rule interpretations form div to div.(AKA Eastcoast/West coast rule book.See my point Mark?
Remember the Dirty,Cheating, Deep Stagers controversy?

Mr Dedman,you know what you can do with that "pole".