questions concerning christmas tree

[Bunkster]

Were the rules being written today, for the first time, with the current technology that is available, there is simply no way… NO WAY… this “first red light” thing would have even been considered.

Bob Glidden and Lee Sheppard never had to deal with this. Don Garlits and Joe Amato never had to deal with this. All of these people were always presented with an EQUAL opportunity at the tree.

Cutting a light….tearing down the tree…is a FUNDAMENTAL of this sport. That some races are not subjected to this same, basic standard, is simply unimaginable.

The chorus of “…been that way since day one and it should not be changed…” is just about as twisted as saying that slavery, since it was legal, should still be allowed.

NHRA and IHRA…..if you are reading this, go to a “worst” red light system now. Do not take a survey. Do not ask of people’s opinions. Do not announce when you are going to start doing it. You know you have the software in place to do this, so just do it.

All I ask, is that when you start doing it, publish the complaints, anonymously, of the few that will find this unfair: THAT will make for some humorous entertainment.

[bill dedman]

Ed said, Mr Dedman,you know what you can do with that "pole".

OK, Ed; it was your idea, not mine...

Bend over...

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by John Kelley

If your contentration is so bad that you need a "clean" tree then you can build a slower car !!
Or they can put blinders the tree......
The "clean tree" BS is so lame...........you need to work on your concentration !!!

The lame BS arguments abound here, Mr. Kelley. I never claimed to be a great driver. I certainly need to work on my concentration.

I can just as easily say if you're so worried about going red first, you need to build a faster car.

See how the smart *** comments work? I can sling them all day with the best of them.

[bill dedman]

But, Alan; with the worse red light system, there would no longer be a reason to build a different car, just to get away from the built-in inequity of this one.

That's the point...

Are you still working on finding the "other side of that coin"??? Or, have you given up?

It's hard to defend the indefensible...

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by bill dedman

But, Alan; with the worse red light system, there would no longer be a reason to build a different car, just to get away from the built-in inequity of this one.

That's the point...

Are you still working on finding the "other side of that coin"??? Or, have you given up?

It's hard to defend the indefensible...

Bill, it doesn't matter what anyone says. You want the rule changed, and nothing else will satisfy you.

[K Stubbs]

I personally do not think that putting blinders on the last two lights will help anyone win races. I have never used a blinder and probably wont ( never say never), however, a lot of people do and are successful with them. As far as the "red light" rule it works fine like it is, like someone said, " I never complain about losing when I redlight". We have a great system that has worked for many years and they have made effective changes like going from five ambers to three and giving us reaction times, which they used to not do. Usually if someone is struggling with reaction times its not the trees fault. I do agree that a background of some sort would be helpful if the sunlight is facing you, at least large enough to cover the back of the tree, allowing you to get a good look at all of the ambers without the sun interfering.

[Mark Yacavone]

"We have a great system that has worked for many years and they have made effective changes like going from five ambers to three and giving us reaction times, which they used to not do."


Yes we do, Kevin. Before R/T's we didn't know how much we red lit by , or whether the second car left early or not. The point is, now we do. We already have that info in the computer and on the time slip, so why not take the final step and make the worse red lighter the loser? We have the worse breakout losing, no matter who crosses the finish line first, so why not have the worse red lighter lose , no matter who crosses the starting line first?
I'm still waiting for a convincing argument.

[bill dedman]

Kevin Stubbs said, "We have a great system that has worked for many years"

I remember his record-holding A/SA 454 Chevelle...

Great car!!!

No wonder he likes that "First red light" rule...

[bill dedman]

Alan said, "Bill, it doesn't matter what anyone says. You want the rule changed, and nothing else will satisfy you."

If anyone including you, Alan, can show me the downside to changing this rule, I will never say another word about it. So far, I have asked you so tell me a legitimate, logical reason why it should not be changed, and you have responded in several different ways, but never with the one that proves that this change will be a mistake.

I have asked you on several occasions, to answer the question of "where in the other side of the coin" (regarding the reciprocity involved in a race between a W/SA car and a AA/SA car in which the W car redlights first, removing the AA car from any redlight jeopardy,) but there's no way to turn that around, with the system we have.

And, though that may be an extreme example, it is real, and is an unnecessary set of circumstances that wouldn't happen, with the worse red light system.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this, and let it go. I'm pretty sure that because it would cost NHRA some money to implement, and that it will never generate any revenue at all for them, that, given the financial climate in Glendoa, it will not happen anytime soon, if ever.

It's just an anomaly that "slipped through the cracks" for a lot of years...

Thanks for listening.

[GarysZ24]

Bill,

I'm sorry that it took me so long to chime in on this thread (especially once Mr Ed from New Joisey had to remind us about a thread spoken about earlier this year)? I agreed with you then, and I agree with you now...and btw, it didn't take me long to see that what you spoke of makes since, but neither of those Ed's or Alan want to see the logic of yours and Marks logistics, so what can we say??? By the way Mr. Ed (F that is), I DO RACE STOCK, I DO HAVE A CAR, AND THUS I DO HAVE A DOG IN THIS FIGHT, SO THERE!!! DON'T BELIEVE ME, CHECK OUT DRAG RACE CENTRAL (FROM LAST WEEK)!!!

Alan brought up some good points about other issues facing our classes, but as someone else stated earlier, they had nothing to do with the title of this thread "QUESTIONS CONCERNING CHRISTMAS TREE"!

Bill, I know that it's likely hopeless that logic will prevail in this case, but I thought I was hopeless in getting my non-turboed V6 taken out of a class that favored turbo-charged 2.2 Mopars, Quad4 Oldsmobiles, and Aluminum headed V6's (when mine is cast-iron). After years of sending requests to Glendora, and years of them seeing me at the bottom of all the qualifying list, they finally placed my car where it belongs, and last weekends qualifying list (107th out of 122 cars), is proof that what's fair for the goose can be fair for the gander. Let's not give up hope just yet....