Clutchless tranny in S/S?

[charlie westcott]

I dont really get what is stupid about this thread. Bruce told me more than once that it was a done deal. He said "clutchless prohibited" was going to be deleted, whis meant that it was allowed, than he told me the were going to try to change the line to "clutchless permitted". This conversation happened within the last month.

I was also told that the S/SS comittee consisted of Bruce an Danny, thats it. Another Tech guy told me that.

cw

[SuperStockDodge]

Well heck, maybe it can be revised to "clutch cars" prohibited and not even have a manual transmission/clutch, flywheel, flywheel shield rule in section 6 of the NHRA bible and all the manual transmission cars will have have no choice other than to run a slush pump, since hardly anyone (not everyone) wants to race a stick car like it is intended to be driven in Super Stock, as well as Stock Eliminator.

[tj310]

I don,t think anyone has said you will have to run clutchless. Pretty sure you can still run a column shift.
" I used to be disgusted, now i'm just amused" Elvis C.

[treessavoy]

Yeah,

I also heard they were going to allow neutral stars for automatics but the starter was going to be in the tower.

Rules are rules until you see changes in writing.

"Much ado about nothing"

JimR

[randy wilson]

i agree with x-techman and superstock dodge, all a clutchless is is an over-priced auto for people too cordinationally challenged to clutch and shift at the same time. i think they should install a little camera on the roll cage and make sure everyone clutches when they shift. worked at are local strip. we have always clutched and shifted in a conventional manor at all strips where cluthless is prohibited. in testing, running a true cluthless trans we picked up .09. i have seen uncordinated people pick up as much as .25 with true clutchless. i have seen superstock dodge run at k.c. and he does use the clutch as we did. he did a damn good job also. hey, we were the cobalt parked next to you guys.

[Mike Crutchfield]

This issue was brought up for a vote by the NHRA S/SS committee at Pomona and did not pass. The rule will be inforced as written for now is what I was told.


Thanks
Mike Crutchfield
D2 SRAC Member

[Mike Taylor 3601]

How many people that are talking about clutchless trans being so much easier to drive have ever drove one or even know how they operate? We are talking about Jerico,G-force and Liberty right, if you are using manual shifter (no air etc.) the clutchless is no easier to drive than the clutch versions,if anything the clutchless is slightly harder due to not being able to keep in gear if off throttle or if you blow tires off.You think shifting
without clutch came about since Jericos or G-forces,or anyother face plate trans,people shifted old crashboxes(synchronizers took out every other dog took off gear)and pro
shifted gears without the clutch,just can't do it many times. face plates made it to where
you can do it for 100's of passes.
Anybody that is good in a stick car will tell you shifting is the easy part with or without
clutch or clutchless doesn't matter.
The only ''helpers'' I like and use are high side rev limiter and line loc switch released
with clutch and can do without if want to.
People that worry about losing to sticks are the same ones that would worry about
a quadrapalegic having a advantage in a fist fight.
I would be ashamed to have a RPM activated shifter to make one gear change.
Mike Taylor3601

[Gary Smith]

I was told there is no advantage of running a true "clutchless" trans compared to clutch (i.e. GForce GF-4R or Jerico DR4). The primary advantages with the DR4 over a T-5 is durability and quicker shift action. I learned to "speedshift" a stick long before switching to a Jerico. And while you can shift the DR4 without kicking the clutch, it's usually at the expense of "out of power band" shift points or a fully adjustable clutch like Soft-loc or Advanced is used.

I have a friend who purchased an ex Larry Morgan Stratus complete with power train (Liberty) which turned out to be a nightmare. He found that clutch setup was very critical..and difficult to master. It made the difference between tire shake or destroying clutch discs @ $400 per set. Tire shake ended up equating to chipped gears @ $500 per repair. Shift points also played a part in keeping it in one piece. The first 2 outings costed $1200 with only 5 passes. So the Liberty went bye-bye in favor of an automatic.

Lenco is perhaps the easiest to operate...but it's a power robber especially with lower HP engines, requires many adjustments, and stupid expensive.

In the end clutchless transmissions (might) offer a couple hundredths, but at a ridiculous cost.

[randy wilson]

i think every combination differs. i have personally not seen anyone break a g-force cluthless at are local track, and they all picked up when changing from a trans that is clutched between gears and a true clutchless. we only know what it did for us. not changing any thing in the clutch from one set-up to the other we picked up .09 on second pass, and according to the computer we missed the shift points by a few hundred rpm. we just ran a single disk soft lok.

[Mike Taylor 3601]

I agree with you Randy. Gary I wouldn't use anything but Mc Leod or Advanced or same as.If you run anything other than sintered iron disc and adjustable pressure style pressure plate you'll most likely regret it. Years ago Red Roberts that used own McLeod convinced me to try his setup and that was best decision I ever made,what sold me on it was he asked if I ever noticed a time when my reaction times were more consistent ,I said sure the last two-three weeks before my disc wears out I would kill tree all night (without going
red), Red said that's what I'm talking about see what happens when you lower pressure. Soft Loc style setup cost to start with but are well worth the price they'll run longer than any other style setup without destroying driveline.
Gary your buddy's pro stock deal that's a whole different deal when you get in those type cars you better know what you're up against there is a hardly no room for error.I've got alot of clutch experience I could probaly get it figured out but I'm sure I would junk a pile of parts in the process.Pro Stock-Comp style clutch is high maintance &high skill level.
What Iv'e seen is clutch trans shifted without clutch .07-.08 quicker and just estimating clutchless trans would probaly be worth about another .05 or so.only difference is clutchless in always pulling where clutch type is in neutral split second on gear changes if cars violent on gear changes using clutch not using clutch is going help more because
car will make smoother pass.
Mike Taylor3601