my opinion

[Jeff Lee]

First post: Deep staging and pro-tree - In Super Stock, as it is perfectly LEGAL, some of the more "seasoned" racers have built in delays which are ADJUSTABLE in their transmissions or the components surrounding their transmissions or the devices which control the vehicle reaction time. Those that don't get this or deny their useage are plain NAIVE or maybe even STUPID. Don Kennedy is fully aware of not one, but all of these methods in controlling reaction times. And so are the "touring pros" reading this.
Allowing for a pro-tree and / or deep staging would NEGATE many of these tactics. And best of all it would negate or limit these tactics for FREE.

Second post: Touring pro's - The touring pro, as pointed out below by Mark Faul has many dilemmas in getting back to the staging lanes. TRUE! But why should NHRA personnel, much less their competitor be held accountable for their issues? If I race SS, I race SS. If the pro wants to race Stock and SS (or comp or whatever), he takes on the issue, not the rest of us. Anybody that has not seen the officials accommodate these racers is BLIND.
Divisional and national event point system is FLAWED and (again) accommodates the touring pro. In the "old days" a racer claimed the race he attended AT THE GATE when he paid his money. And as today, the amount of races you could claim was dictated. If you claimed a race and failed 1st round, it directly affected your points. If you won the race, same thing. NOW you can tour the whole country and "pick and choose" the races you want to claim. Therefore, the advantage WILL ALWAYS be to the touring pro over the "local yocal" The stat Don should have posted other than that other list of BS is who attends the most races and filters out the "BAD" races. The guy that has a 40 hour a week job has almost no chance of winning a championship. Right now the system is not only structured for the full - time traveling sportsman, it actually encourages it.

Bring it back to claiming a race before racing the event and retaining the allowable divisional / national races as well as points for #1 qualifier and points for national records (remember, this is supposed to be a "performance based class") and EVERYBODY is on level playing fields.

[Ed Fernandez]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lee

First post: Deep staging and pro-tree - In Super Stock, as it is perfectly LEGAL, some of the more "seasoned" racers have built in delays which are ADJUSTABLE in their transmissions or the components surrounding their transmissions or the devices which control the vehicle reaction time. Those that don't get this or deny their useage are plain NAIVE or maybe even STUPID. Don Kennedy is fully aware of not one, but all of these methods in controlling reaction times. And so are the "touring pros" reading this.
Allowing for a pro-tree and / or deep staging would NEGATE many of these tactics. And best of all it would negate or limit these tactics for FREE.

Second post: Touring pro's - The touring pro, as pointed out below by Mark Faul has many dilemmas in getting back to the staging lanes. TRUE! But why should NHRA personnel, much less their competitor be held accountable for their issues? If I race SS, I race SS. If the pro wants to race Stock and SS (or comp or whatever), he takes on the issue, not the rest of us. Anybody that has not seen the officials accommodate these racers is BLIND.
Divisional and national event point system is FLAWED and (again) accommodates the touring pro. In the "old days" a racer claimed the race he attended AT THE GATE when he paid his money. And as today, the amount of races you could claim was dictated. If you claimed a race and failed 1st round, it directly affected your points. If you won the race, same thing. NOW you can tour the whole country and "pick and choose" the races you want to claim. Therefore, the advantage WILL ALWAYS be to the touring pro over the "local yocal" The stat Don should have posted other than that other list of BS is who attends the most races and filters out the "BAD" races. The guy that has a 40 hour a week job has almost no chance of winning a championship. Right now the system is not only structured for the full - time traveling sportsman, it actually encourages it.

Bring it back to claiming a race before racing the event and retaining the allowable divisional / national races as well as points for #1 qualifier and points for national records (remember, this is supposed to be a "performance based class") and EVERYBODY is on level playing fields.

The same guys will STILL win as many races and because they're so good the percentages are with them that they will get points at every race they claim.It is what it is no matter what you "welfare " racers do to throw obstacles in their way.
BTW Don,no reply on specifics of my "so called" name calling?
The match race I would pay to see is Don against the Energizer Battery rabbit.I think Don would outlast even him.

[Jeff Lee]

Welfare racers? Then tell us by whom and for what reason the old systems of deep staging was disallowed? Yes, the allowance of a racer to choose the way he controlled his own race around for 40+ years, was changed? I'd say it was orchestrated by those looking for advantages.

Welfare racers? Then tell us by whom and for what reason the old system of claiming races at the gate was disallowed? Another successful system that worked for 40+ years was changed? Again, I'd say it was orchestrated by those looking for advantages.

Will the same guys that race often still win? Of course. But the system should not cater to them. Otherwise call it a pro-class and take only the top 16 qualifiers.

[Ed Fernandez]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lee

Welfare racers? Then tell us by whom and for what reason the old systems of deep staging was disallowed? Yes, the allowance of a racer to choose the way he controlled his own race around for 40+ years, was changed? I'd say it was orchestrated by those looking for advantages.

Welfare racers? Then tell us by whom and for what reason the old system of claiming races at the gate was disallowed? Another successful system that worked for 40+ years was changed? Again, I'd say it was orchestrated by those looking for advantages.

Will the same guys that race often still win? Of course. But the system should not cater to them. Otherwise call it a pro-class and take only the top 16 qualifiers.

Jeff,deepstaging was probably eliminated by NHRA because of all the bull**** that went on by both deep stagers and non deepstagers.We all know the games both sides played.
Mark Faul was correct when he said he attended 16 nationals last year,but only 5 were on the record.Maybe the guys who were beat by him in the non claimer racers should call
a Mulligan.After all he ran his points races,why should he be allowed to race anymore and beat the poor working stiffs.
I fully agree that when the lanes are closed,they're closed,no if's and's or but's.
The welfare comment was directed at Don.It seems when things get slow his "level the playing field" mode kicks in.
This whole thread is bull**** anyhow.We should be directing our energies towards NHRA
updating their payout structure and the tech dept. leadership allowing division tech to do their jobs and ENFORCE the rulebook uniformly from div. to div. without meddling from Glendora.
First priority should be you set a record you teardown before leaving the track.No teardownno record.Oh and EVERYBODY goes over the scales,running or not.Only exclusion,God forbid you crash your car.
I notice that once eliminations begin they don't usually weigh you till at least the semis.Is it so hard to weigh a car?
Sorry for getting off subject but this subject is getting stale.

[Don Kennedy]

..

[Jeff Lee]

Going to 16 races is the racers prerogative. If he/ she can afford it, both in time and money, so be it. But having the time and money to devote on such a level should be considered a professional class of racing. However one wants to define it, it should be obvious that racing 16 and claiming the 5 best is an advantage that can't be shared by the true sportsman racer. If you can accept that, then the rules are tilted to the professional racer. What is wrong with claiming the race as you entered, as it was done in the past?

Deep staging issues could have been solved by not allowing anything but a forward motion once the pre-stage beam was lit. Instead, the officials mandated no deep staging which affected the slow race cars more than anything else. The rulebook stated for years (again, probably 40+ years) that the starting line was where the racer made his best attempt at beating his opponent off the line (I can't remember the exact wording, don't want to research it for exactness but I'm sure you understand). I still say deep staging will nullify some of the advantages of delay type components engineered into an auto-trans equipped vehicle.

I agree on closing the staging lanes. I was at one national event and the staging lane director told everybody to "pull up or go back to your trailer!" And he meant it. My opponent was no where to be found. In fact I was ordered to pull forward to race. Then NHRA finally realized I had no opponent and now they wanted to find him. I sat along the water box through two rain delays (light mist). That gave all the time for the opponent to be found. Between the rain and his actions, yea, I was a little miffed to say the least. My emotions didn't matter as the track wasn't as good and I spun. In this situation, there was no reason I shouldn't have received a competition bye.

Seems in the D7 & D5 races I have attended the scales are mandatory on every competition run. But I agree, if not, it should be mandatory.

I've never seen a car set a record and not get a tear down. But I also agree on that, no tear down, no record. Same with runs that effect AHFS. You give a life changing moment to other racers, you should be checked.

I wasn't bothered by the welfare statement. I believe nothing can make all racers and their vehicles 100% on the same level. But as I've stated, right now the points system does favor those with the most amount of travel time.

[442OLDS]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lee

I still say deep staging will nullify some of the advantages of delay type components engineered into an auto-trans equipped vehicle.

Could you further explain what you mean by this?

[Jeff Lee]

Originally Posted by 442OLDS

Could you further explain what you mean by this?

Various methods of (easily) adjusting the transmission fluid rate of flow to add / subtract delay, various ways of adjusting the electrical components between the trans release button to the transmission to create delays.
Any of these methods are in measurable and controlled amounts. Of course like anything, practice makes perfect!
And no, I don't see any of this as being illegal. But they do ad to the complexity and cost of racing. Deep staging can negate much of this.

[Dave Ficacci]

I want to comment on the issue of "hanging back" in the pits instead of coming right up when your class is called.

Most events in D1 and most National Events there are generally 100+ stockers and 80+ Super Stockers. By the time the first call goes out to come up the lanes, to the time the first pair goes down the track, it is usually 10 - 20 minutes if the race is running without a hitch..which is usually never! A full field of stock takes an hour and 15 min to an hour 30. You are almost talking about a 2 hour window!! I'm sure most of you knew that already though..

It is obvious there are some that will always be the first ones out, some come up in the middle and some will bring up the rear. Attend a few races and you should be able to figure out which drivers falls into which group. If you have to race someone who likes to hang back, plan accordingly! I'm sure most of you knew that already too..

Why should the racers who hang back be penalized because they would rather NOT sit in the lanes for an extra hour + ? A ton of things can change in that hour that will effect your on track performance. Air conditions, Track conditions lighting...etc. Sometimes you cannot make the adjustments you need to make because you are already in the lanes... again. I'm sure you guys knew that already too.

The guys in the back of the lanes don't hang back to anger their competitor or to try throw them off their game... They are in the back trying to give themselves the best shot at being prepared for the task at hand....but, I guess u knew that too...

Instead of worrying about who is bringing up the rear of the staging lanes..try working on the problem that is between your steering wheel and your seat!

[Mark Faul]

Going to 16 races is the racers prerogative. If he/ she can afford it, both in time and money, so be it. But having the time and money to devote on such a level should be considered a professional class of racing. However one wants to define it, it should be obvious that racing 16 and claiming the 5 best is an advantage that can't be shared by the true sportsman racer. If you can accept that, then the rules are tilted to the professional racer. What is wrong with claiming the race as you entered, as it was done in the past?


Even if a racer goes to all 24 national races, how is it an advantage other than seat time and possibly making some money? Here's an extreme example for you:
I lose round 1 at the first 6 races in 2010. Then I win the next 18. My national score would be 90, because as been stated before, you count the best 3 out of the FIRST 6 you attend. Some advantage!???