my opinion

[Billy Nees]

[QUOTE=Jeff Lee;
It would seem this type of "Pro-Sportsman" racer could be defined as a "professional". As I demonstrated earlier, some "individual" sports (golf, bowling, maybe even fishing) have standards that separate the "sportsman" (or amateur), from the "professional" ranks. NHRA does not seem to separate the two. In fact, it is part of your language.
In fact, NHRA allows "professional" racers (think Pro-Stock multi-time national champion Jeg Caughlin and others) to compete against "Sportsman" racers. Does that practice seem equitable to you?

Apparently I have more faith in my capabilities as a driver and tuner than you do! I don't have a problem with racing anybody! They all pull their pants on the same way that I do.

[Jeff Lee]

Originally Posted by Michael Beard

Encourage? Most definitely. That's the promoter's job!



What does Pro Stock have to do with Stock or Super Stock? They are different disciplines. This is like allowing Tiger Wood to compete in a croquet tournament.

I'm one that does look at the bigger picture, but I'm not sure I'm seeing the same one as you. What exactly are you defining as problems and solutions?

Michael,
Your smart enough, I don't take you for stupid. If we indeed are "Sportsman" and are somehow separated from "Professional" since NHRA does indeed have these labels, a professional (by NHRA definition) should not be mixing it up with "Sportsmen" racers. As I explained earlier, there are many areas I believe differentiate one from the other and I would bet the IRS would agree with me. That is the "problem". The solution? That should be apparent. Don't allow professionals to compete against sportsmen.
Now I suppose some here have an ego that would encourage this mingling, as in, "wow, I beat Jeg Coughlin with my Gremlin today". I guess that would make one a hero. But the adverse is true, "dang, my Gremlin got beat by a full time professional pro-stock driver today".

I've explained my position until my fingers are blue. Can't offer any more and obviously a few here disagree with what I'm trying to point out and some don't even seem to understand what I'm saying. Since I make a living selling houses and writing contracts, I find that confusing. But so be it. I've made my case, you've made yours.
Thanks for listening and Merry Christmas.

[Ed Fernandez]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lee

The bold print would be a lie. The rest of your story is slanted to your view on Don and I. I can tell you that you are wrong. But go with it if it makes you happy.

Your words,not mine are the basis for my opinion of you and Don.

Can't offer any more and obviously a few here disagree with what I'm trying to point out and some don't even seem to understand what I'm saying.
A few??????????????? That's a real Clintonesque observation.

[Billy Nees]

[QUOTE=Jeff Lee;

I've explained my position until my fingers are blue. Can't offer any more and obviously a few here disagree with what I'm trying to point out and some don't even seem to understand what I'm saying. Since I make a living selling houses and writing contracts, I find that confusing. But so be it. I've made my case, you've made yours.
Thanks for listening and Merry Christmas.[/QUOTE]

And you've finally hit the nail on the head! Some people are meant top be realtors, some crazy hermits and some very,very good drag racers! It's all in the hand that you're dealt. You have a wonderful Christmas Too (and please let us all try to remember the real meaning). Till the next time let's cordially agree to disagree.

[Dave Ribeiro]

Don & Jeff,

It must be real slow over at your old site S/S , last post was 11-20-09 ?
Has it shut down or what , so much for people not wanting No-names...
No-one likes to be told what to do ...... I think its great you guys have come over to the Dark side, keep it clean ?

[Steve Williams]

This thread is still going? This is going to be a long rough winter....

[Mark Faul]

I'd still like to hear what the definition of a professional sportsman racer is.

Is it just a fool like me or Fletch or Toby (sorry Dan and Toby!) that chose to make racing our full time job?
Is it a guy like Bertozzi who's been a very successful businessman and can get away and race more than most?

Just exactly who are you trying to keep out of your playground by not wanting pros and sportsmen to compete in the same category?

[cicero819]

Ok, here's my too cents, we all wish we could have the balls to try to make a go of it but we sit there and bitch, congrats to all those who've proven that the more you work the more you're lucky.(Henry Ford)

[Toby Lang]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lee

So whats a "Sportsman". NHRA has a "Pro" category and a "Sportsman" category. You tell me, what's the difference?

Well, they had to call it something and sportsman was as good a name as any I guess.

It's definitely not an amateur category though. It's been said here many times before, but if you want to get rid of the better drivers, get rid of ALL prize money and then it will be a true amateur sport.


-Toby

[Michael Beard]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lee

If we indeed are "Sportsman" and are somehow separated from "Professional" since NHRA does indeed have these labels, a professional (by NHRA definition) should not be mixing it up with "Sportsmen" racers.

Semantics. "Sportsman" does not equal "Amateur". So... what do you do with IHRA S/SS racers, since we run the "Pro-Am" series, which was quite deliberately given that name by Bader as just another way to acknowledge the professionalism exhibited by the "sportsman" racer.

As I explained earlier, there are many areas I believe differentiate one from the other and I would bet the IRS would agree with me. That is the "problem". The solution? That should be apparent. Don't allow professionals to compete against sportsmen.

So, the problem is 1) with Pro Stock drivers running S/SS, 2) with people who claim their racing as a business running S/SS?

If 1) - again, what does driving a Pro Stock car have to do with driving in S/SS? They are totally different disciplines. Jeg and Line are exceptions to the rule who happened to be Sportsman Champions before they were Pros.
If 2) - if you seek a truly amateur status, should we race for just trophies as someone else pointed out?

Want to level the playing field? It doesn't have anything to do with Pro- Trees, Points, or Hood Scoops. It has to do with driving and strategy, both of which are learned skills.The biggest thing standing between Joe Average and the Touring Professional Sportsman racer is KNOWLEDGE. I've helped a bunch of people over the years with their driving, and will continue to do so, because I love our sport.