Just an idea to combine classes.

[art leong]

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

X-Tech,
We ran TOP/SS in Division 3 for 2 years. Due to the dilution of cars into many classes only a few higher class cars were available but we had some 6-8 car races that were really Great. Indy first year national open 8 cars. Tony Depillo, Gus, John Nemeth, Kenny Schindler,Eddie Smith, Brandon Wilkenson , Ray Paquet, and one time Brian Oakes even came for the races and Won Both TOP/SS and TOP/STK. ALL the people who ran felt it was the best thing they had done for some time. Stephan Johnson, Dave Thomas, Bucky Hess Jim Pancake and Charlie Westcott even came for a meet and supported the race. Many others competed on a one or two race basis.
It is an example of how condensing classes gives an option for Class racing without eliminating the Sunday Eliminator program...EVERYONE has a
program they enjoy.

No offence. But 6 to 8 car fields sound a lot like the sport compact races (that everybody on here hated). That died a agonizing death. Slowly dropping car counts to 3 or 4.

[Dick Butler]

True,
Small Field or Real Muscle cars not Rice Burning buzzing motors. We are victims of the Massive class numbers diluting the racers into Great cars that represent one car per class in many meets. The fact we got 6-8 using ballast or removing ballast was great considering that fact. Besides where could you earn 500$ to 1500$ for 3 runs besides TOP/SS or TOP/STK in Div 3? If the classes were condensed Multiple groups of 6-8could run like we did in JR/STK also. Even Better with fewer classes there would be naturally MORE per class showing up which Could run TOP type classes or just their own class at National Events.
I'll Take Tony Depillo's Honkin Hemi in a 8 car field over FWD Rice burners any day.
Wait till this year when Dallas Kelly returns to SS with his T-Bolt Totally upgraded to 2010 Technology as a SS/A or B and Paul Adams SS/B and Ray Paquet SS/B. Several Corvettes and one or two newer B cars from Chrysler and we have an Attraction again...
We may just try TOP/SS again.

[Mike Carr]

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

NHRA could have class which would be meaningful not Bye Runs for trophy taking a 1/2 day of event time.

A half a day? Not even half an hour, even at Indy.

[art leong]

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

True,
Small Field or Real Muscle cars not Rice Burning buzzing motors. We are victims of the Massive class numbers diluting the racers into Great cars that represent one car per class in many meets. The fact we got 6-8 using ballast or removing ballast was great considering that fact. Besides where could you earn 500$ to 1500$ for 3 runs besides TOP/SS or TOP/STK in Div 3? If the classes were condensed Multiple groups of 6-8could run like we did in JR/STK also. Even Better with fewer classes there would be naturally MORE per class showing up which Could run TOP type classes or just their own class at National Events.
I'll Take Tony Depillo's Honkin Hemi in a 8 car field over FWD Rice burners any day.
Wait till this year when Dallas Kelly returns to SS with his T-Bolt Totally upgraded to 2010 Technology as a SS/A or B and Paul Adams SS/B and Ray Paquet SS/B. Several Corvettes and one or two newer B cars from Chrysler and we have an Attraction again...
We may just try TOP/SS again.

Dick you just don't get it your poll failed miserably. 95 % of the people on here don't see things the way you do, and never will.
You can like the muscle cars better. I do to. But face it we are a minority. There are a lot more young people out there with EVO's SRT 4's, Honda's Etc, Than there are people who like old cars. Like it or not that is reality.
We should be happy with what we have. It isn't perfect but it's not broke either.
If you know a track operator thats thinks a 6 or 8 car top SS field will fill their stands. Please send them to me I have some bargain bridges I just might let them have cheap.

[Dick Butler]

ART , You right No track could attract a show with 6-8 cars. I think thats what happened in the 60s when ACE WILSON or BILL JENKINS came to a local track to race the local cars and guys showed up because the track ADVERTISED the race. If more cars were around and sponsors could be rounded up and guys showed up who knows how it works... My personal feeling is that if I came from 400 miles to run class I still would rather race class for 3 or 4 rounds than get a BYE into eliminator. Could nt there be BOTH kinds of racing at NHRA events, might it encourage working on the cars to run fast? (Sell Parts) (attract Sponsors) be more interesting to spectators and racers. (JOG the AHFS faster)
Maybe we should ask guys why they like watching ss/HA or GT/AA or.... where there are 6 or 8 heavy hitters from across the country. Class Racing Heads up can be part of the show without excluding anyone but adding a series of possible Positive affects
As for the Poll only 16 or so answered out of how many? Also poll addressed Points for records and winning so Class racer mentality could earn more point too instead of only Bracket mentality earning.

[art leong]

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

ART , You right No track could attract a show with 6-8 cars. I think thats what happened in the 60s when ACE WILSON or BILL JENKINS came to a local track to race the local cars and guys showed up because the track ADVERTISED the race. If more cars were around and sponsors could be rounded up and guys showed up who knows how it works... My personal feeling is that if I came from 400 miles to run class I still would rather race class for 3 or 4 rounds than get a BYE into eliminator. Could nt there be BOTH kinds of racing at NHRA events, might it encourage working on the cars to run fast? (Sell Parts) (attract Sponsors) be more interesting to spectators and racers. (JOG the AHFS faster)
Maybe we should ask guys why they like watching ss/HA or GT/AA or.... where there are 6 or 8 heavy hitters from across the country. Class Racing Heads up can be part of the show without excluding anyone but adding a series of possible Positive affects
As for the Poll only 16 or so answered out of how many? Also poll addressed Points for records and winning so Class racer mentality could earn more point too instead of only Bracket mentality earning.

What on earth makes you think that everyone magically would work on their cars and make them go faster. Don't you realize it's about money. Hard work will only get you so far
Why don't you go over to the comp forums. And listen to what real competition is all about
That is what you are trying to turn stock and superstock into If you race a higher class car right now you need 2 wheel barrows of money to be competitive. Do you want everyone to spend $100,000. That is exactly what would happen if you got your way.

[Dick Butler]

Art, It might just be about money NOW in SS. All the newer SS cars are 80,000 + in GT without a motor. If the money issue is your concern, How does the fact you have the "option " to spend more to run faster or work harder to run faster affect the Sunday Eliminations part of the program? People can only spend so much money to have fun racing. That is a 100% truth. With people going 1.40 under without working on the cars in solo classes so they can run on Sunday in the Bracket program why would they worry about how much others WANT to spend to be No. 1? Do you think people enjoy being in a class for bye runs to get a trophy? Without the sponsor money to go with it is there a reason to even HAVE class? If we just kept the rules on tech and allowed any car to run in eliminator wouldnt that just be an expensive BRACKET race? Why not allow those who WANT to win class by racing someone spend what they want. Why not enhance the chance of Classes being bigger by condensing them? No offense but how would it affect your program of racing? There ARE people who are not on this site and some who are who WANT to go fast and Want to beat people for a trophy and the Pride of accomplishment , not just show up sunday and run eliminations...

[art leong]

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

Art, It might just be about money NOW in SS. All the newer SS cars are 80,000 + in GT without a motor. If the money issue is your concern, How does the fact you have the "option " to spend more to run faster or work harder to run faster affect the Sunday Eliminations part of the program? People can only spend so much money to have fun racing. That is a 100% truth. With people going 1.40 under without working on the cars in solo classes so they can run on Sunday in the Bracket program why would they worry about how much others WANT to spend to be No. 1? Do you think people enjoy being in a class for bye runs to get a trophy? Without the sponsor money to go with it is there a reason to even HAVE class? If we just kept the rules on tech and allowed any car to run in eliminator wouldnt that just be an expensive BRACKET race? Why not allow those who WANT to win class by racing someone spend what they want. Why not enhance the chance of Classes being bigger by condensing them? No offense but how would it affect your program of racing? There ARE people who are not on this site and some who are who WANT to go fast and Want to beat people for a trophy and the Pride of accomplishment , not just show up sunday and run eliminations...

There are only 3 cars in the country in my class. But you can help me out. Why don't you build a car for my class?
If I win a trohpy on a single who are you to tell me it doesn't mean anything
I've qualified number 1 with every car I've raced. So don't tell me I don't work hard.

[Dick Butler]

Originally Posted by art leong

There are only 3 cars in the country in my class. But you can help me out. Why don't you build a car for my class?
If I win a trohpy on a single who are you to tell me it doesn't mean anything
I've qualified number 1 with every car I've raced. So don't tell me I don't work hard.

Wow! sorry you take this discussion so personally. You should be proud to be capable of running #1. You have chosen a good combination.. You are entitled to be pleased with getting a trophy for attending in your class. With consolidation maybe someone could be at the same events you attend too.
My history is somewhat different. I have about 40 Class trophies and One Points meet Trophy. I have been in the top 5 in Div 3 points several times only based on eliminator points. One of my class trophies is for a bye run. It looks the same but it is not as sweet.
One year I won my Class over a minimum of 4 cars at 6 events including Indy and Gainesville. Once we towed back to Gainesville after a rain out to win class after narrowing the class from over 10 cars. Same type of cars , heavily factored and Excellent racers from both Coasts. Actually several record holders. My Point is there are TWO points of view on what Racing at a NHRA event is about. Bracket racing or Class racing . I feel Strongly both can and should remain equally important . If someone choses one area so be it. The fact no one shows in a class indicates maybe there are too many classes to populate with racers. If Drag racing in Stk and SS started with classes as the form of racing and Dial in was developed to allow handicaping of Class Winners Both should remain important forms of our "SHOW"
Thanks
Dick

[art leong]

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

Wow! sorry you take this discussion so personally. You should be proud to be capable of running #1. You have chosen a good combination.. You are entitled to be pleased with getting a trophy for attending in your class. With consolidation maybe someone could be at the same events you attend too.
My history is somewhat different. I have about 40 Class trophies and One Points meet Trophy. I have been in the top 5 in Div 3 points several times only based on eliminator points. One of my class trophies is for a bye run. It looks the same but it is not as sweet.
One year I won my Class over a minimum of 4 cars at 6 events including Indy and Gainesville. Once we towed back to Gainesville after a rain out to win class after narrowing the class from over 10 cars. Same type of cars , heavily factored and Excellent racers from both Coasts. Actually several record holders. My Point is there are TWO points of view on what Racing at a NHRA event is about. Bracket racing or Class racing . I feel Strongly both can and should remain equally important . If someone choses one area so be it. The fact no one shows in a class indicates maybe there are too many classes to populate with racers. If Drag racing in Stk and SS started with classes as the form of racing and Dial in was developed to allow handicaping of Class Winners Both should remain important forms of our "SHOW"
Thanks
Dick

Dick face the facts we don't have a show. If you barred all the racers and crew from the stands. There would be nobody to watch even The Hemi Shootout.
We are our own show. Most spectators want Fuel Cars only.
I've got an idea you would like "if no cars show up in a class get rid of the class" Who cares about the other cars at the other end of the country. Let them go out and buy a more popular combo, or quit. This way there will be more for the cars that remain and they can spend more money to get away with stuff that isn't in the rule book.
Then NHRA can just give up trying to teardown cars, and get rid of the remaining cars, they can all go .90 racing.
Will you be statisfied then?