Pick basics of new eliminator

[Ed Fernandez]

Originally Posted by Dwight Southerland

Me too!

What about starting with a format similar to what Div. 1 did with Top Stock and Junior Stock? There probably needs to be a transition plan to allow people to race what they have in the current environment and also participate in a new eliminator formula. I prefer a heads-up race for both the competitors and the spectators sake. Odds are that a spectator base will not be attracted to an index-breakout race.

Dwight,with the car counts and the amount of different classes here in Div there's no time to run another race in a race.
We used to have a $20 best package race on the final qualifying shot at divisionals a ways back.A lot of fun.Between the increase in classes,entries and no one to keep track of it the race died.
It seems they're draining the fun factor out of us slow but sure.

[Dick Butler]

Originally Posted by Steve Polhill

My thinking is there should be a spot for everyone to participate. I don't think 4 classes within the category is too much. BB, Sb, 6 cyl and 4 cyl. The 6 and 4 cy would need a weight break and some HP help but it's doable..

Now would there be 4 classes? OR would there be several classes for BB and SB and a 6 and a 4 (thinking of heavy versus light cars) or just one of each and fit using bigger motor or smaller? and reduced wt or ballast?

[Dick Kirkpatrick]

Originally Posted by Dave Turner

You go girl!!!

Dave

Why don't you save up your money and buy two more pistons. LOL

[Tony Curcio]

Since we're just talking here, I'll add that a spec head that is CNC ported from the factory is easier to police against stealth modification. If there's any doubt about whether a head has been tampered with, the manufacturer can scan it, or run it throught the machine again.

In order to pass, it not only has hold the correct volume, but the shape must be identical as well. With CNC, there can be no arguing about how you found a "lucky casting".

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Tony Curcio

Since we're just talking here, I'll add that a spec head that is CNC ported from the factory is easier to police against stealth modification. If there's any doubt about whether a head has been tampered with, the manufacturer can scan it, or run it throught the machine again.

In order to pass, it not only has hold the correct volume, but the shape must be identical as well. With CNC, there can be no arguing about how you found a "lucky casting".

The only reason that I don't like the idea of a "spec" head is it's not practical to pull a head and check the shape at the track. I guess it could be done with templates but I could see "stuff" slipping through. If the intake tract is restrictive enough (very small spec carb or throttle body) and the valve spring pressure is restricted then the RPM potential of the engine would be restricted to a point that the head and intake become less of an issue. Compression would then become an issue but I guess that a spec cylinder pressure number could be easily enforced.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Dwight Southerland

Me too!

What about starting with a format similar to what Div. 1 did with Top Stock and Junior Stock? There probably needs to be a transition plan to allow people to race what they have in the current environment and also participate in a new eliminator formula. I prefer a heads-up race for both the competitors and the spectators sake. Odds are that a spectator base will not be attracted to an index-breakout race.

A few years ago (one of my "I'm bored" weekends) I started playing with desktop dyno just picking engine combos and restricting them. Now I know that isn't the real world but if you restrict the intake and the exhaust enough on almost any combo they all wind up making about the same HP.
It could be interesting (at least to me anyway) to get some Stockers or SSers together and put a restrictor plate under the carb and put on a collector with a 2" outlet, get them to the same weight and see how they run in relation to each other.

[Robert Swartz]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

A few years ago (one of my "I'm bored" weekends) I started playing with desktop dyno just picking engine combos and restricting them. Now I know that isn't the real world but if you restrict the intake and the exhaust enough on almost any combo they all wind up making about the same HP.
It could be interesting (at least to me anyway) to get some Stockers or SSers together and put a restrictor plate under the carb and put on a collector with a 2" outlet, get them to the same weight and see how they run in relation to each other.

I've read all this with some interest. Looking at the above, you're getting real close to what the circle track racers used to (maybe still) do. One of the local tracks around here, allowed to you to pretty much build the motor however you wanted it, as much cam and compression as you please. Here was the kicker, they limited everyone to a cast iron intake, a 500 cfm 2 barrel carbutetor and cast iron manifolds. As you can pretty much figure, everyone was running SBC's. They also mandated a specific size DOT tire, so everyone was equal, on paper.

Ever thought about revisiting the old Modified Production weight breaks? Or maybe Super Modified? Here again, I see alot of BB, SB chevy combinations, which still would be typical of S/SS. Mandate the carb/fi size. Holley makes a 450 cfm mechanical secondary carb. I like the collector restriction idea. I would say, don't allow any flycutting of the valve relief area of the piston, this would limit cam size. Someone that's smart (read that $$$$) would just build a set of pistons that would allow them to supplant this.

Some good ideas here. Limit the amount of air/fuel going in, the exhaust going out and keep everyone on 9" tires. Fitting the 6 and 4 cylinders, gonna take someone smart.

[Tony Curcio]

Restrictors are certainly a lot cheaper than a new set of heads.

I recall now that when I had a 2 bbl. on our G/Pure Stock combo, the same engine that went through the traps at 7000 with a Q-Jet would run out of steam at 5700with the 2 bbl. Bigger ports would only have made the situation worse.

Billy, how would you like to try it out? Do you have the equip to make a restrictor for a Q-Jet? If not, what should the specs be, maybe I can get something made. I'd be willing to try it at the test & tune before the Atco Nat'l Open (Thurs April 1st).

Any small block Ford or Mopar guys interested? We only want to compare how much each combo drops off, and if they start off close in performance, do they remain so.

[Billy Nees]

Tony, I'd love to see how a restrictor plate would react. I can get the plate made. I don't know where to start with dimensions and I'm not sure if a plate would fit under a Q-jet. (throttle blades might hit plate)
Any ideas on plate dimensions?

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Tony, I'd love to see how a restrictor plate would react. I can get the plate made. I don't know where to start with dimensions and I'm not sure if a plate would fit under a Q-jet. (throttle blades might hit plate)
Any ideas on plate dimensions?

Billy....you could start with 3/4 inches. (.750) or (smaller 5/8th or 1/2 inch holes) and use a 1/4 inch thick plate then allow and adaptor an inch thick above that so the carb butterflies will clear. . Thats what we used (1/2 inch) with the 2 barrel class production S/S cars in IHRA. Work from there until you find what works best. Just a suggestion.