Mixing bearings for clearance

[Alan Roehrich]

I've put in at least a couple hundred sets of Eagle rods. The only rods I've seen broke were rods that were in cylinders that had the entire cylinder wall collapse. The rods were bent nearly double before anything broke. And those were the I-beam rods. I've never had a broken Eagle H-beam rod, in anything I've built personally (and I've built plenty with them), although I know some who have.

I know several guys better than me, with more horsepower than me, and turning more RPM than me, who use Eagle H-beam rods. We have Eagle H-beam rods in the iron 427, and a new set to go in the new iron 427. They are the Eagle 6.135" H-beam rod with L-19 bolts and the "ESP Armor" option. With a 750 gram piston assembly (counting the piston, rings, locks, spacers, and pins) and turning no less than 7800 on every pass, we've got no problems.

If Eagle has an H-beam rod that will fit, get the L-19 bolts and the ESP Armor option, and get them approved, they should do fine. I know guys with 9000 RPM 850HP Super Stock engines with Eagle H-beam rods with L-19 bolts in them. If they wanted, or felt they needed, an Oliver or a Crower, I know for sure they can afford them.

[Rich Biebel]

I can agree with Alan about Eagle H-beams......used them a few times and never had a failure. I had them in one of my own engines in my old dragster. Big Block alcohol injected 7 second car.......

I have seen the I beam SR rods fail though in a small block bracket engine with very few runs....

[Chris "drooze" Wertman]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

I've put in at least a couple hundred sets of Eagle rods. The only rods I've seen broke were rods that were in cylinders that had the entire cylinder wall collapse. The rods were bent nearly double before anything broke. And those were the I-beam rods. I've never had a broken Eagle H-beam rod, in anything I've built personally (and I've built plenty with them), although I know some who have.

I know several guys better than me, with more horsepower than me, and turning more RPM than me, who use Eagle H-beam rods. We have Eagle H-beam rods in the iron 427, and a new set to go in the new iron 427. They are the Eagle 6.135" H-beam rod with L-19 bolts and the "ESP Armor" option. With a 750 gram piston assembly (counting the piston, rings, locks, spacers, and pins) and turning no less than 7800 on every pass, we've got no problems.

If Eagle has an H-beam rod that will fit, get the L-19 bolts and the ESP Armor option, and get them approved, they should do fine. I know guys with 9000 RPM 850HP Super Stock engines with Eagle H-beam rods with L-19 bolts in them. If they wanted, or felt they needed, an Oliver or a Crower, I know for sure they can afford them.

Ill look, I know K1 has or will have an approved rod, H beam.

I need a 6.200 length and 927 pin ....

Stewart (there is a 'problem' with the Manley rods, nothing structural just an issue regarding its legality in Stock from what I understand from well people who should know .... lol)

Ill give you a call and thanks for the OP #'s

I am going to say what others may be thinking, and don't take this the wrong way, but you need to align yourself with an stocker engine guy that knows what they are doing. Some of questions you ask, and some of the things you say about parts, rpm, and trick of the week coatings really scares me. If you don't, I'm afraid you may be in for a long, expensive education. If you do go it alone, then at least build just one motor to learn with, then if, or when, you have figured it out, spend money on the other motors you have planned. Again, don't take it as a slam, I'd just hate to see you have another oil pan failure.

Good Luck

[Rich Biebel]

Another piece of advice........ditch the oil accumulator......I really see no reason for one on a stocker unless your playing with very low oil in the pan or it is doing giant wheelstands.......Makes no sense to have one on a car like this to me for the little gain you might get. If you had one on there and were having oil pressure loss issues....something was definately plumbed wrong....

I have one on my dragster (3 qt Moroso) and it has at times shown some erratic operation on the pressure gauge.....I believe it was from mounting clamps that were to tight and in locations on the can that could restrict the pistons movement......I took it off and moved the clamps to the outer ends of the can but have not put it back on to see if it's fixed......

I have no knowledge or experience with the oil system on one of these Mopar engines and as I recall Mopars were a little less trouble free than your run of the mill Chevs.....

[Chris "drooze" Wertman]

Originally Posted by Rich Biebel

Another piece of advice........ditch the oil accumulator......I really see no reason for one on a stocker unless your playing with very low oil in the pan or it is doing giant wheelstands..

The very presence of it was at Mopars guidance for "oiling issue" or reduction of it, its going byebye on the next motor, maybe itll go back maybe not....

Were following Duells lead on this hes not running one either I know a few of the hemis ARE after the Tech bulletin and some prior failures (to ours)

I agree, I dont like it and I dont trust this solenoid and its operation. So its going byebye.....

At this point "were on our own" in regards to motors so, well, I dont have to explain why Im not running something they said to run.....easy..

Thanks

I do have a question in a SBC you are running how much rod offset do you have on a wrist pin from the perpindicular center ? This is a left field question but one for "refrence"

Cheers

Chris

[Rich Biebel]

There is no offset on a small or big block chevy rod. Pin hole and crank pin holes are on center......

I can't think of any common engines that use offset rods. Pistons pushing on rods off center from the rod? I am not familiar with any engine that has this design....

[Chris "drooze" Wertman]

Originally Posted by Rich Biebel

There is no offset on a small or big block chevy rod. Pin hole and crank pin holes are on center......

I can't think of any common engines that use offset rods. Pistons pushing on rods off center from the rod? I am not familiar with any engine that has this design....

Its done in small bore engines all the time in their "street" trim, used to be more common it helps quiet forged slugs during expansion a bit and for example on a 2 stroke, well piston slap is a biggie since hanging ports is a great way to start a new small shiny part collection.

It was my understanding (apparently incorrect) that some of the small chevs did this commonly.

Not rather the rod is offset but from the journal to the pin in straight fashion is sometimes by say .030-070 pistons are also different for the pin offset.

I know in the LS stuff there is now a "offset rod" that puts it on center since the Hemi is using a LS 6.200 .927 rod, I wanted to see what options were available to get the CORRECT offset (as in 0) because the use of the Scat rods does just that it does not sit in the center of the pin, and my bearing sideload will be greater, cap stess on bolt greater at High RPM, and it would really flipping explain what I am seeing now on several motors in regards to the bearings along the radius side where the cranks mic perfect.....but it looks on the bearing like the journals arent square...

Like I said I thought the SBC was this way my bad.

[Chris "drooze" Wertman]

Well, no offense taken, absolutley none.

Im actually kinda liking you already,
a) youre not saying something I dont know
b)partially accurate, any innacuaracy is not by lack of insight or poor reasoning its actually sound reasoning on your part.
c)Said what others are probably thinking but said it in a very considerate and helpful manner.

No offense at all, quite the opposite, comment appreciated and honesty appreciated.

The coatings weve been using extensivley on bikes for 20 years, that "old hat" as it were, they cryo , thats new to me but well, in the end Im only looking to lengthen the failure curve across the board between cryo and coatings perhaps 5% so that is a reasonable application and expectation I feel.

As time allows my buddies over at (an unname defense contractor here)are going to use some of the "really" trick stuff that requires things like charged phosgene fields and stuff that well, makes me nervous to even touch afterward..lol..but finding time to get it in a prototrype batch of torpedo parts gets a little "when it can be done"....so later not for the next 2 or 3 motors

Youre right , the learing experience isnt going to be cheap but our next 3 motor will be under 10k for 3 , yes for 3 complete motors.....that is a)an assortmnent of parts we already had (5.7 blocks) new DP pistons, rods, bolts, timing, pans, heads 1 extra pair of DP heads, and all the other goodies, I am 2k under that now and have all the parts in house to do 3 more motors (well the last set of pistons is on its way) Sounds crazy but this stuff (NOT the DP Specific stuff pistons and pan) is CHEAP, like crank block, rods, bolts rckers, shafts, pushrods etc, all less pistons and pan... all under 2000..... (900 of that is block and we already had 2 new 5.7 "freebie blocks".....

I learn by doing, and failing, and succedding and lather rinse repeat.

I dont want someone else to build the motors, I heard things I didnt like about the "accepted or what I should do" in regards to clearances, funny thing is Im pretty sure I didnt like it , others have agreed it was too tight.

So I ask, I weigh, I decide. I do ask things I have an opinion on if I havent decided, I hear and bounce Ideas.

I expect 1 more motor failure before we have the "secret recipe of 11 herbs and coatings"

But youre right, we are going to build 1 of the planned 3 and run it, the old man still wants to do 2 but well.....there are "secret squirrel DP owner Kabal" reasons not to just quite yet. Some, several of these "errors" in items we have just found out over the last few days. (more than we alreay knew about and that was a lot....)

I was asked to look over a collection of antique camera equiptment last night, my friend asked me how I (at 38) am one of the few people in the states that can overhaul and repair a particular type shutter on a camera as I expained, its easy you just need to destroy about 10 irreplacable pieces in short order until you get it right

What me and my father have learned so far is, some things we thought were right were wrong, some things we were told were wrong and we were right and some things we would have never done had it not been for the failures will save us more grief in the future , but we learned by doing it....were hardheaded that way. But its how WE learn....

Thanks for your honest and sincere comment, I hope my post didnt offend it was only meant to give an insight into our thinking and our reasoning.

(PSThis new COMUTER Keyboard SUCKS ! Tommorow....FIX Other Laptop.....)

Cheers

Chris

Originally Posted by LSP

I am going to say what others may be thinking, and don't take this the wrong way, but you need to align yourself with an stocker engine guy that knows what they are doing. Some of questions you ask, and some of the things you say about parts, rpm, and trick of the week coatings really scares me. If you don't, I'm afraid you may be in for a long, expensive education. If you do go it alone, then at least build just one motor to learn with, then if, or when, you have figured it out, spend money on the other motors you have planned. Again, don't take it as a slam, I'd just hate to see you have another oil pan failure.

Good Luck