Hope I do not regret this post and I hope it is taken as just an honest question. - Page 4

Bruce Noland · 03-24-2010, 10:37 AM

Jeff,
This is not the 50's or 60's. You are racing a 1 of 3 race car that has overwhelming advantages over it's competitors. Your old truck has little or nothing in common with your new car. Sure you can race it all you want. After all it is in the class guides.

Ed Fernandez · 03-24-2010, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Teuton

Like I said on another thread, where was all this concern for my stock trucks which got factored and classed from first to last, and where was the help I asked for for my 69 Six Pack car. Yall a little one sided. Let the system do the work. These new cars will surely step on their foot. Too many of them when they all get to the track. Hell I will probably step on my foot.

Jeff,you gave us a preview of the potential of your combo at Belle Rose.These new breed cars are showing a taste of what they're capable of.They will filter down from A and
AA down as their numbers grow.What will come to be when someone starts to run the Camaro combos?Everything from A to H will be dominated by them.
I can just see Dan,Peter and others showing up in P-Q-R-T-U-V to avoid the tsunami of
these under factored overpriced "stockers".

Jack Matyas · 03-24-2010, 10:42 AM

[QUOTE=Bruce Noland;177085]Andy,
Personally, I'm glad you started this thread. We need to discuss these issues. None of this would be happening if we were dealing with a decent sanctioning body. But unfotunately we are not. Some say this is just a business for the sanctioning body in question but the sanctioning body does such a good job at masqurading as a family oriented not for profit that it leaves many people bewildered when it makes so many self serving decisions. Make no mistake, these guys know exactly what they are doing. They have been lobbied successfully by the OEM's and others who have a lot to gain from these new cars coming into Stock and Super Stock. These new cars coming into Stock and Super Stock will feed the professional carreers of some and increase income for others, but of course these facts should not be considered when making decisions about Sportsman Racing. There are many indoctrinated racers who simply want to run down the track and they aren't bothered by the fact that very soon their way of racing will be gone forever. Gone? Why-come? Because most racers cannot afford $100,000.00 racing programs and these new cars will simply shatter their dreams of working on their old combinations with the hopes of becoming a player in their respective classes. Nope, that dream is gone. It will be left to the 100 or so racers who are rich enough to exploit a lame, money-sucking sanctioning body.

Bruce -- The way I see it is that it doesn't matter which of us is right as there are only two facts that are important right now -- the first is that the "new" cars are here to stay and the second is that the NHRA isn't about to back down and make serious changes to the current HP as you have suggested -- so here's the dilemma -- which do YOU need more -- a "new" car or a new sanctioning body ....................At some point you must realize that you can beat the drum as loud as you want but no one is coming .................

Charley Downing · 03-24-2010, 11:02 AM

Ok from this point on all racers in stock must race a 1970 350 camaro so the class will be FAIR. And racers can only spend a max of 30,000 on your car. You can only run a TCI trans with a 2.75 low gear and 5.13 rear gear with headman headers. Would this rule make everyone happy because that is about the only where I see SS and STK being fair for all.

treessavoy · 03-24-2010, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andys dad

Suppose NHRA took 100 horsepower off of the '69 427 Camaro by mistake.

Would all of the guys with that combination feel satisfied?

Would the blown Ford guys or the Drag Pak guys complain?

Or

Should the Camaro guys ask NHRA to make it correct?

If I understand this explanation you're asking me as a competitor to go and complain to the NHRA that they took too much HP off the camaro......and the answer is "yes". Actually I would ask them if it was a misprint then lay out reasons why the HP should be added back to the 427.

If you're trying to compare this situation to the new Fords and Dodges then you're comparing apples to oranges. The 427 Camaro is a well known entity while the "new" cars are just that....new, therefore there are no proven performance statistics to measure the the new cars against.

Just like the Chevy/Pontiac FI cars the HP will catch up to the Fords and Dodges someday, it's just going to be rough for a while.

JimR

CBS · 03-24-2010, 11:45 AM

amen...ED

Bruce....the pulleys were on there....I was getting ready for the CIC race.........except for radials.....

My point was that if Brian was in D...he would have dominated just like we did....till the final...then we would have had some fun....

bsa633 · 03-24-2010, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Teuton

This is the same argument from the 60's when the factories jumped into the frucus, the Mopar cars, the camaros, the copo cars, the Shelby's. Just 40 or 50 years later.

Probably so..but this time around there are no people in place trying to make it fair for the rest along the line .rather the opposite it seems(please dont talk about the system taking care of it..that joke is not fun anymore).....
Atleast i know that when the day comes that i get a headsup with a grossly under-rated car and the guy in the other lane have maybe a .3 to .4 reaction and waiving and smiling going by me well..that's the same day for the last round of NHRA-type stock eliminator for me...my idea of this wasn't spending $$$$$+ and 25 years to be out there making others shine!

Have fun with your beautiful car!

Harry 6674 · 03-24-2010, 12:14 PM

This all could be fixed in one year by the hras if they had the balls. Give big points for national records,big points for class wins, how about having like classed face each other in the eliminator in the first few rounds? The under factored cars no matter if their old or new have to be forced to put their foot in it or it will take as long as the Lt-1s and LS-1s to be factored correctly. I know people will still be able to play games in qualifying to avoid the heads up but it would be tougher. Also big points for #1 qualifier. Maybe keeping the cars in their original class to keep them from changeing class at every race with weight changes. I don't know but its just going to get worse with the new technology and chevy isn't involved yet. Wait until they come in at 250 horse or something goofy like that.

Clay Arnett · 03-24-2010, 12:19 PM

For me the biggest issue with the new cars is the fact that they aren't true production cars that should be in stock. I cannot roll into any Dodge dealer right now and open the hood of a Challenger and find the engine these cars are running in Stock. The Ford is actually closer to stock than the Mopar but like the Dodge it's not a true production car. The production Ford weighs 3900 lb and is 550hp. I don't have a problem with fast stockers I actually like them. They do have a significant advantage over older cars and that's to be expected with the increase in technology. I think they should get moved to their own class and eventually when the hp does even out then move them back into Stock but I imagine by that point they will be super stock only cars due to the extremely high hp factor they would carry by then.

W J · 03-24-2010, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry 6674

This all could be fixed in one year by the hras if they had the balls. Give big points for national records,big points for class wins, how about having like classed face each other in the eliminator in the first few rounds? The under factored cars no matter if their old or new have to be forced to put their foot in it or it will take as long as the Lt-1s and LS-1s to be factored correctly. I know people will still be able to play games in qualifying to avoid the heads up but it would be tougher. Also big points for #1 qualifier. Maybe keeping the cars in their original class to keep them from changeing class at every race with weight changes. I don't know but its just going to get worse with the new technology and chevy isn't involved yet. Wait until they come in at 250 horse or something goofy like that.

I like what Harry said......makes some good sense. Make it worthwhile for people to start running their car out the back door.....WJ

03-24-2010, 10:37 AM	#31
Bruce Noland VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,855 Likes: 83 Liked 444 Times in 145 Posts	Re: Hope I do not regret this post and I hope it is taken as just an honest question. Jeff, This is not the 50's or 60's. You are racing a 1 of 3 race car that has overwhelming advantages over it's competitors. Your old truck has little or nothing in common with your new car. Sure you can race it all you want. After all it is in the class guides. __________________ Bruce Noland 1788 STK

03-24-2010, 10:42 AM	#33
Jack Matyas Live Reporter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Bethlehem , PA -Christmas City , USA Posts: 4,930 Likes: 406 Liked 2,051 Times in 399 Posts	Re: Hope I do not regret this post and I hope it is taken as just an honest question. [QUOTE=Bruce Noland;177085]Andy, Personally, I'm glad you started this thread. We need to discuss these issues. None of this would be happening if we were dealing with a decent sanctioning body. But unfotunately we are not. Some say this is just a business for the sanctioning body in question but the sanctioning body does such a good job at masqurading as a family oriented not for profit that it leaves many people bewildered when it makes so many self serving decisions. Make no mistake, these guys know exactly what they are doing. They have been lobbied successfully by the OEM's and others who have a lot to gain from these new cars coming into Stock and Super Stock. These new cars coming into Stock and Super Stock will feed the professional carreers of some and increase income for others, but of course these facts should not be considered when making decisions about Sportsman Racing. There are many indoctrinated racers who simply want to run down the track and they aren't bothered by the fact that very soon their way of racing will be gone forever. Gone? Why-come? Because most racers cannot afford $100,000.00 racing programs and these new cars will simply shatter their dreams of working on their old combinations with the hopes of becoming a player in their respective classes. Nope, that dream is gone. It will be left to the 100 or so racers who are rich enough to exploit a lame, money-sucking sanctioning body. Bruce -- The way I see it is that it doesn't matter which of us is right as there are only two facts that are important right now -- the first is that the "new" cars are here to stay and the second is that the NHRA isn't about to back down and make serious changes to the current HP as you have suggested -- so here's the dilemma -- which do YOU need more -- a "new" car or a new sanctioning body ....................At some point you must realize that you can beat the drum as loud as you want but no one is coming ................. __________________ Jack Matyas 1547 FS/C 2015 Camaro COPO # 62- 2012 Camaro Convertible COPO

03-24-2010, 11:02 AM	#34
Charley Downing Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 761 Likes: 16 Liked 633 Times in 88 Posts	Re: Hope I do not regret this post and I hope it is taken as just an honest question. Ok from this point on all racers in stock must race a 1970 350 camaro so the class will be FAIR. And racers can only spend a max of 30,000 on your car. You can only run a TCI trans with a 2.75 low gear and 5.13 rear gear with headman headers. Would this rule make everyone happy because that is about the only where I see SS and STK being fair for all. __________________ Charley Downing 3548 STK

03-24-2010, 11:45 AM	#36
CBS VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Commerce, Mi Posts: 1,387 Likes: 1 Liked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Hope I do not regret this post and I hope it is taken as just an honest question. amen...ED Bruce....the pulleys were on there....I was getting ready for the CIC race.........except for radials..... My point was that if Brian was in D...he would have dominated just like we did....till the final...then we would have had some fun....

03-24-2010, 12:14 PM	#38
Harry 6674 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 589 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Hope I do not regret this post and I hope it is taken as just an honest question. This all could be fixed in one year by the hras if they had the balls. Give big points for national records,big points for class wins, how about having like classed face each other in the eliminator in the first few rounds? The under factored cars no matter if their old or new have to be forced to put their foot in it or it will take as long as the Lt-1s and LS-1s to be factored correctly. I know people will still be able to play games in qualifying to avoid the heads up but it would be tougher. Also big points for #1 qualifier. Maybe keeping the cars in their original class to keep them from changeing class at every race with weight changes. I don't know but its just going to get worse with the new technology and chevy isn't involved yet. Wait until they come in at 250 horse or something goofy like that.

03-24-2010, 12:19 PM	#39
Clay Arnett Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Hartsville, IN Posts: 128 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Hope I do not regret this post and I hope it is taken as just an honest question. For me the biggest issue with the new cars is the fact that they aren't true production cars that should be in stock. I cannot roll into any Dodge dealer right now and open the hood of a Challenger and find the engine these cars are running in Stock. The Ford is actually closer to stock than the Mopar but like the Dodge it's not a true production car. The production Ford weighs 3900 lb and is 550hp. I don't have a problem with fast stockers I actually like them. They do have a significant advantage over older cars and that's to be expected with the increase in technology. I think they should get moved to their own class and eventually when the hp does even out then move them back into Stock but I imagine by that point they will be super stock only cars due to the extremely high hp factor they would carry by then.