Another bogus hp rating.

Greg Hill · 03-26-2010, 07:29 AM

Just so you guys in some of the lower classes think you're immune form the new crate motors take a look at the 2010 4.6l motor from Ford rated at 235hp. Also look at the 2007 Ford GT 4.6l motor rated at 300hp. These motors are basically the same except for two things, first the crate motor is 11 to 1 compression and the GT motor is 10 to 1, and the throttle body on the crate motor is 2 @ 62mm and the GT motor is 2 @ 57 mm. This is basically legalized cheating. A motor that probably should be 310 or 315 rated at 235. How much more bogus can it get?

Dale Shannon · 03-26-2010, 08:01 AM

I think the 07 300hp is over rated it is a dog, however the 10 is under rated and will cause a stir in the lower classes.
Dale

Mike Fuller · 03-26-2010, 08:34 AM

This is just proof that corporate money can buy most anything. It is also an sign that the technical people do not understand what is printed on thier technical spec sheets. Its is the way things are going in this country today. I have to deal with similar situations at my work place on a regular basis. The accounts have become the guiding force in most matters today.

SSDiv6 · 03-26-2010, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Fuller

This is just proof that corporate money can buy most anything. It is also an sign that the technical people do not understand what is printed on thier technical spec sheets. Its is the way things are going in this country today. I have to deal with similar situations at my work place on a regular basis. The accounts have become the guiding force in most matters today.

Corporate money does not have nothing to do with it. It is the factoring the OEM when the OEM submits the specification sheets to NHRA. Do you think NHRA's front office tech department knows the difference in the specs between the years and models? No. It is the tech guys that works in the field such as Travis that know because they are familiar with the books on a daily basis and not just typing data in to the books.

Charley Downing · 03-26-2010, 09:30 AM

Greg how is the 4.6 at 235 any different then the 1990-1991 carmao or corvette when it was at 260

281ci at 310hp give me a brake Greg if that combo is rated 310 then your combo should be 375HP.

Greg Hill · 03-26-2010, 04:09 PM

Charley, calm down. I made the assumption based on Ford's own rating of the 2007 motor. With a larger throttle body and a full point more of compression it should be 10 or 15 more than the 2007. As far as my motor I think it's a pretty tough combination. I might be able to go a second under the new index in killer air but that would be it. I would also add that I've thrashed on it for 20 plus years and spent a lot of money trying to make it run fast.
I do agree with one thing you said, the 350 fuel injected motor was probably 15 or 20 hp soft to start with, but the intake on those motors is terrible and they won't rev up.

There is a big difference in being 15 or 20 soft and 75-100 soft. If you look at stocker motors a really good one should make about 1.5 times it's rated horsepower. I just got my motor off the dyno and it didn't do quite that well. It was closer this time but still a little short..All that 4.6 l motor would have to do at 235hp would be352. That may not be a 475 hp motor but I bet it will make 425-450. So lets compromise and rate it at 290. That's 10 less than the 2007 GT motor.

junior barns · 03-26-2010, 05:56 PM

Hey Greg Hill

Might be a dumb ? but the 1.5x hp are you talking top reading or an average??

Charley Downing · 03-26-2010, 06:22 PM

Greg come on 290hp. 245hp maybe.

Compare it to a 283ci Chevy like Wade Owens which is rated around 220HP (NHRA). Wade went -1.10 (11.75) at Belle Rose. There is no way the Ford 281ci with a little bigger throttle body and cam can make 75 more hp then say Wade Owens car. The 235 hp 281ci in J/SA is no better the Wades combo in M/SA. Heck I will take it one step further by comparing it to Johnny Fishers 360 dodge. Fisher car ran 11.65 @101mph in K/SA at INDY. Which means he could have ran somewhere around 11.50. I fail to see how this ford combo is any softer then these two combos.
Just so I’am getting your point right. You feel that a 281ci motor will make the same HP as your 350ci motor with a Holley. That is too funny. If that ford motor makes with in 25hp of yours you need to find a new engine builder.

Fred Popov · 03-26-2010, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charley Downing

Greg come on 290hp. 245hp maybe.

Compare it to a 283ci Chevy like Wade Owens which is rated around 220HP (NHRA). Wade went -1.10 (11.75) at Belle Rose. There is no way the Ford 281ci with a little bigger throttle body and cam can make 75 more hp then say Wade Owens car. The 235 hp 281ci in J/SA is no better the Wades combo in M/SA. Heck I will take it one step further by comparing it to Johnny Fishers 360 dodge. Fisher car ran 11.65 @101mph in K/SA at INDY. Which means he could have ran somewhere around 11.50. I fail to see how this ford combo is any softer then these two combos.
Just so I’am getting your point right. You feel that a 281ci motor will make the same HP as your 350ci motor with a Holley. That is too funny. If that ford motor makes with in 25hp of yours you need to find a new engine builder.

You should take a look at the flow numbers on these Ford 3 valve heads. (About 225 intake and 190 CFM exhaust ~ Stan Weiss Head Flow Database) Factory stock they flow better than the Chevy LT1s. At these flow numbers these engines are capable of 450+ HP.

SS Engine Guy · 03-26-2010, 11:58 PM

Have to agree with Greg and Fred here. Small inch comp motors have been flying for years with good heads and alot of gear.

03-26-2010, 07:29 AM	#1
Greg Hill VIP Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Louisville , KY Posts: 1,995 Likes: 68 Liked 279 Times in 68 Posts	Another bogus hp rating. Just so you guys in some of the lower classes think you're immune form the new crate motors take a look at the 2010 4.6l motor from Ford rated at 235hp. Also look at the 2007 Ford GT 4.6l motor rated at 300hp. These motors are basically the same except for two things, first the crate motor is 11 to 1 compression and the GT motor is 10 to 1, and the throttle body on the crate motor is 2 @ 62mm and the GT motor is 2 @ 57 mm. This is basically legalized cheating. A motor that probably should be 310 or 315 rated at 235. How much more bogus can it get? __________________ Greg Hill 4171 STK

03-26-2010, 08:01 AM	#2
Dale Shannon Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Denver NC Posts: 74 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Another bogus hp rating. I think the 07 300hp is over rated it is a dog, however the 10 is under rated and will cause a stir in the lower classes. Dale

03-26-2010, 08:34 AM	#3
Mike Fuller Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 950 Likes: 559 Liked 198 Times in 79 Posts	Re: Another bogus hp rating. This is just proof that corporate money can buy most anything. It is also an sign that the technical people do not understand what is printed on thier technical spec sheets. Its is the way things are going in this country today. I have to deal with similar situations at my work place on a regular basis. The accounts have become the guiding force in most matters today. __________________ Mike Fuller 396 STK 3961 SS

03-26-2010, 09:30 AM	#5
Charley Downing Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 761 Likes: 16 Liked 633 Times in 88 Posts	Re: Another bogus hp rating. Greg how is the 4.6 at 235 any different then the 1990-1991 carmao or corvette when it was at 260 281ci at 310hp give me a brake Greg if that combo is rated 310 then your combo should be 375HP. __________________ Charley Downing 3548 STK Last edited by Charley Downing; 03-26-2010 at 09:46 AM.

03-26-2010, 04:09 PM	#6
Greg Hill VIP Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Louisville , KY Posts: 1,995 Likes: 68 Liked 279 Times in 68 Posts	Re: Another bogus hp rating. Charley, calm down. I made the assumption based on Ford's own rating of the 2007 motor. With a larger throttle body and a full point more of compression it should be 10 or 15 more than the 2007. As far as my motor I think it's a pretty tough combination. I might be able to go a second under the new index in killer air but that would be it. I would also add that I've thrashed on it for 20 plus years and spent a lot of money trying to make it run fast. I do agree with one thing you said, the 350 fuel injected motor was probably 15 or 20 hp soft to start with, but the intake on those motors is terrible and they won't rev up. There is a big difference in being 15 or 20 soft and 75-100 soft. If you look at stocker motors a really good one should make about 1.5 times it's rated horsepower. I just got my motor off the dyno and it didn't do quite that well. It was closer this time but still a little short..All that 4.6 l motor would have to do at 235hp would be352. That may not be a 475 hp motor but I bet it will make 425-450. So lets compromise and rate it at 290. That's 10 less than the 2007 GT motor. __________________ Greg Hill 4171 STK

03-26-2010, 05:56 PM	#7
junior barns Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 541 Likes: 11 Liked 20 Times in 14 Posts	Re: Another bogus hp rating. Hey Greg Hill Might be a dumb ? but the 1.5x hp are you talking top reading or an average??

03-26-2010, 06:22 PM	#8
Charley Downing Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 761 Likes: 16 Liked 633 Times in 88 Posts	Re: Another bogus hp rating. Greg come on 290hp. 245hp maybe. Compare it to a 283ci Chevy like Wade Owens which is rated around 220HP (NHRA). Wade went -1.10 (11.75) at Belle Rose. There is no way the Ford 281ci with a little bigger throttle body and cam can make 75 more hp then say Wade Owens car. The 235 hp 281ci in J/SA is no better the Wades combo in M/SA. Heck I will take it one step further by comparing it to Johnny Fishers 360 dodge. Fisher car ran 11.65 @101mph in K/SA at INDY. Which means he could have ran somewhere around 11.50. I fail to see how this ford combo is any softer then these two combos. Just so I’am getting your point right. You feel that a 281ci motor will make the same HP as your 350ci motor with a Holley. That is too funny. If that ford motor makes with in 25hp of yours you need to find a new engine builder. __________________ Charley Downing 3548 STK Last edited by Charley Downing; 03-26-2010 at 06:31 PM.

03-26-2010, 11:58 PM	#10
SS Engine Guy Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: usa Posts: 256 Likes: 1 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Another bogus hp rating. Have to agree with Greg and Fred here. Small inch comp motors have been flying for years with good heads and alot of gear.