oil retention devices

Jeff Lee · 03-31-2010, 02:04 AM

Another issue I have not seen addressed is oil temperatures. This often does not relate to the bracket or Super Class racers as they are not "typically" running as us; the "performance based class racers".
I think you'll find a lot of the former running 50wt oils and changing the oil once or twice a season. The later will often run 10 wt oils and change it as often as every race. But maintenence, although an issue, is not the real concern I have, it's oil temperatures. Personally, per my engine builder, I don't want to see oil temps above 150 degrees based on the oil and clearances I have in the engine. He says if it hits 200 degrees, park the car until it drops. Even if it means loosing a round. Some may have a differing opinion but it's my engine and that's what I go by so I really don't care what Smokey Yunick said 30 years ago. Hardblock or similar products retain heat already.
Call it a diaper, call it a blanket, but no matter what, it's serves to retain heat in the oil pan. I see no way around this. I'd like an independent party to analyze the change in oil temp and the amount of time to cool down with a blanket as opposed to without a diaper.
And I'm with everybody else on this, I see no problem in the class. The issue in the sportsman ranks is the classes that seldom maintain their engines and continue to race when performance is suffering. A Super or Top racer that slows two tenths is more likely to adjust the throttle stop or ad more NOS than to pull the pan and inspect the engine. That always leads to trouble.
I'm sending this post to the S/SS committee
Tech@nhra.com

joe176 · 03-31-2010, 09:14 AM

I think I'll save money and have my bogus Impact firesuit made into a diaper !!!!!!! What Next !!!!!!!! Must be certified by Pampers at a cost $100 every two years.

Jeff Lee · 04-01-2010, 05:37 PM

Vic Santos,
I agree with you, below is what I posted on this subject earlier on post #44:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Lee

Another issue I have not seen addressed is oil temperatures. This often does not relate to the bracket or Super Class racers as they are not "typically" running as us; the "performance based class racers".
I think you'll find a lot of the former running 50wt oils and changing the oil once or twice a season. The later will often run 10 wt oils and change it as often as every race. But maintenence, although an issue, is not the real concern I have, it's oil temperatures. Personally, per my engine builder, I don't want to see oil temps above 150 degrees based on the oil and clearances I have in the engine. He says if it hits 200 degrees, park the car until it drops. Even if it means loosing a round. Some may have a differing opinion but it's my engine and that's what I go by so I really don't care what Smokey Yunick said 30 years ago. Hardblock or similar products retain heat already.
Call it a diaper, call it a blanket, but no matter what, it's serves to retain heat in the oil pan. I see no way around this. I'd like an independent party to analyze the change in oil temp and the amount of time to cool down with a blanket as opposed to without a diaper.
And I'm with everybody else on this, I see no problem in the class. The issue in the sportsman ranks is the classes that seldom maintain their engines and continue to race when performance is suffering. A Super or Top racer that slows two tenths is more likely to adjust the throttle stop or ad more NOS than to pull the pan and inspect the engine. That always leads to trouble.
I'm sending this post to the S/SS committee
Tech@nhra.com

Racer 6x64,
Another prior post from a Division S/SS representative went something like this....If you are not a registered NHRA member with a current S/SS number, your opinion is not wanted by NHRA.

B Parker · 04-01-2010, 05:50 PM

Oil retention my ***. It's just a bunch of **** ( thats what diapers are for). Haven't you guys figured out what they do. Anytime we start having some real issues with things they divert our attention to crap like this and get us to stop thinking about real problems. Like the AHFS with the newer under rated cars. Especialy the one that Charlie is building. ( SORRY CHARLIE ) . I just couldn't help myself. Now if there is a real problem and it's costing money because we are not using diapers it's real easy to get most of us to put one on. Give anyone that uses a daiper a $25. discount on our entrance fee's. If there is a real problem they will save more than that with no down time from us and no extra track prep. Barry

Racer 6x64 · 04-01-2010, 05:53 PM

Jeff, I am a paid member of both the NHRA and IHRA and posses a competition license in both as well. I am not sure how to take that statement. Are you asking me to leave the forum simply based on the fact that I am not class racer? Or just making me aware that the NHRA rep is not interested in hearing any pro's or con's from a non-class racer?

Angelo DiTocco · 04-01-2010, 06:13 PM

Why not just legalize Dry Sump systems? That would at least have the added benefit of improving performance.

And VIc S......... 11 quarts ???? ...you sandbagger!
If you cut it back to like 8 quarts it might cool down a little bit quciker & Just think of how much weight you'd save LOL

Vic Santos · 04-01-2010, 07:09 PM

Jeff Lee: Sorry but my old eyes glazed over at about posting #35. We are in total agreement.

Racer6x64: The oil temperature issue is: the hotter the oil the thinner it is. The thinner it is the it's ability to protect the engine is lessened, oil pressure is lowered, oil flow is increased (emptying the pan quicker) and more oil migrates into the cylinder. Once all of these changes are dealt with there is no "issue".

Angelo: Remember all of those engine changes Dean and I use to do? I was running 8 qts. 11 is much better and cheaper!

Jeff Lee · 04-01-2010, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racer 6x64

Jeff, I am a paid member of both the NHRA and IHRA and posses a competition license in both as well. I am not sure how to take that statement. Are you asking me to leave the forum simply based on the fact that I am not class racer? Or just making me aware that the NHRA rep is not interested in hearing any pro's or con's from a non-class racer?

Just what I made in bold.

NewHemi · 04-02-2010, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Lee

Just what I made in bold.

Does that mean that the NHRA ACTUALLY DOES CARE about what class racers have to say?

Just asking...

David
The New Hemi Guy

X-TECH MAN · 04-02-2010, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewHemi

Does that mean that the NHRA ACTUALLY DOES CARE about what class racers have to say?

Just asking...

David
The New Hemi Guy

LOL.....Yeah just like the Dems over the health care issue.

03-31-2010, 02:04 AM	#1
Jeff Lee VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Anthem, Arizona Posts: 2,766 Likes: 0 Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: oil retention devices Another issue I have not seen addressed is oil temperatures. This often does not relate to the bracket or Super Class racers as they are not "typically" running as us; the "performance based class racers". I think you'll find a lot of the former running 50wt oils and changing the oil once or twice a season. The later will often run 10 wt oils and change it as often as every race. But maintenence, although an issue, is not the real concern I have, it's oil temperatures. Personally, per my engine builder, I don't want to see oil temps above 150 degrees based on the oil and clearances I have in the engine. He says if it hits 200 degrees, park the car until it drops. Even if it means loosing a round. Some may have a differing opinion but it's my engine and that's what I go by so I really don't care what Smokey Yunick said 30 years ago. Hardblock or similar products retain heat already. Call it a diaper, call it a blanket, but no matter what, it's serves to retain heat in the oil pan. I see no way around this. I'd like an independent party to analyze the change in oil temp and the amount of time to cool down with a blanket as opposed to without a diaper. And I'm with everybody else on this, I see no problem in the class. The issue in the sportsman ranks is the classes that seldom maintain their engines and continue to race when performance is suffering. A Super or Top racer that slows two tenths is more likely to adjust the throttle stop or ad more NOS than to pull the pan and inspect the engine. That always leads to trouble. I'm sending this post to the S/SS committee Tech@nhra.com __________________ Jeff Lee 7494 D/S '70 AMX

03-31-2010, 09:14 AM	#2
joe176 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: NY Posts: 601 Likes: 36 Liked 41 Times in 9 Posts	Re: oil retention devices I think I'll save money and have my bogus Impact firesuit made into a diaper !!!!!!! What Next !!!!!!!! Must be certified by Pampers at a cost $100 every two years. __________________ Joe Franco SS176

04-01-2010, 05:53 PM	#5
Racer 6x64 Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 25 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: oil retention devices Jeff, I am a paid member of both the NHRA and IHRA and posses a competition license in both as well. I am not sure how to take that statement. Are you asking me to leave the forum simply based on the fact that I am not class racer? Or just making me aware that the NHRA rep is not interested in hearing any pro's or con's from a non-class racer? __________________ C. P. 2015 Drag Pack Challenger FS/C

04-01-2010, 06:13 PM	#6
Angelo DiTocco Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NY, NY Posts: 750 Likes: 175 Liked 189 Times in 48 Posts	Re: oil retention devices Why not just legalize Dry Sump systems? That would at least have the added benefit of improving performance. And VIc S......... 11 quarts ???? ...you sandbagger! If you cut it back to like 8 quarts it might cool down a little bit quciker & Just think of how much weight you'd save LOL __________________ Angelo DiTocco '98 Firebird SS/HA '98 Firebird B/SA

04-01-2010, 07:09 PM	#7
Vic Santos Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 27 Likes: 0 Liked 14 Times in 2 Posts	Re: oil retention devices Jeff Lee: Sorry but my old eyes glazed over at about posting #35. We are in total agreement. Racer6x64: The oil temperature issue is: the hotter the oil the thinner it is. The thinner it is the it's ability to protect the engine is lessened, oil pressure is lowered, oil flow is increased (emptying the pan quicker) and more oil migrates into the cylinder. Once all of these changes are dealt with there is no "issue". Angelo: Remember all of those engine changes Dean and I use to do? I was running 8 qts. 11 is much better and cheaper!

04-01-2010, 05:50 PM	#4
B Parker Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 849 Likes: 980 Liked 2,336 Times in 464 Posts	Re: oil retention devices Oil retention my *. It's just a bunch of ** ( thats what diapers are for). Haven't you guys figured out what they do. Anytime we start having some real issues with things they divert our attention to crap like this and get us to stop thinking about real problems. Like the AHFS with the newer under rated cars. Especialy the one that Charlie is building. ( SORRY CHARLIE ) . I just couldn't help myself. Now if there is a real problem and it's costing money because we are not using diapers it's real easy to get most of us to put one on. Give anyone that uses a daiper a $25. discount on our entrance fee's. If there is a real problem they will save more than that with no down time from us and no extra track prep. Barry