Yet another bogu horsepower factor

[Michael Beard]

Originally Posted by Myron Piatek

How the heck can you fault someone for taking advantage of an opportunity that was presented to EVERYONE?

Hold on a sec, let me check my wallet... Hm. Somehow, it appears that this "opportunity" isn't available to me. If I won the lottery tomorrow, I'd have one of each. That still wouldn't make them factored right or put them in the right class.

Go to the source (not that it will do any good), but singling out people for taking advantage of an opportunity because they can is wrong. I'd be surprised if you wouldn't have taken advantage of any combo if you could have!

That, I will agree with. The people buying/building the new cars are playing within the rules, and I don't fault them for doing so. The blame lies squarely upon NHRA and the manufacturers. That being said, people are more than welcome to take advantage of the rules all they want, but don't insult anyone's intelligence by trying to say with a straight face that the HP factors aren't a joke. I have no problem with someone if they're just honest and says, "Yeah, they're underrated, but that's what NHRA gave us, so I'm gettin' while the gettin's good."

Isnt this basically a crate motor car?

Might look like it until you compare the specs on these new "crate motor" cars to our crate motor cars. There is no comparison. And IHRA Crate Motor cars are still Stockers - not factory-built race cars. Let me know when NHRA adds 'the rest of' the crate motor classes... No, never mind. There's a reason I don't run NHRA, and it ain't because they don't have Crate Motor Stock.

Again -- I *love* the new cars. Just put them in the right place, with reasonable HP factors. Got no problem with the people that've bought or built them. The blame is NHRA's.

[junior barns]

Well said Michael!

[Ron Ortiz]

Forget all the nonsense Mustangs, Challengers, etc. If you want to be the bad boy in the country get a Cadillac. It may not go into the eights, but it will go further under than anyone else.

Now that some new cars can obliterate the rest of the field everyone is crying and bickering amongst themselves. I totally understand the situation as I have been in it more times than not for over twenty years.

The thing is anyone who wants to race Stock only has to look in the Classification Guide and pick the combo that they want. How fast do you want to go? How much money do you want to spend? Some combos are soft and some are not, but you do have a choice.

Some people want to run these new Fords with say unfair HP ratings. These individuals know that they are just scratching the surface of their true potential. Same goes with the Mopar clan. The bowtie people have had an advantage in the past, but it only has taken several years to realign them with the HP ratings. The sad thing is that these newer cars will eventually be corrected but the other sportsman racers will have left the sport due to frustration.

In the true form of competition we need all the new cars we can get. It will keep the sport alive. We need the older cars as they are a real representation of the sport and is the greatest car show as well. And believe it or not we really need the imports if we are going to draw in a new generation. It all still comes down to HP ratings whether new, old, domestic or foriegn.

The manufacturers know how to "play the new game" with HP ratings. Remember that well. The technical staffs and crews can see the descrepecies in HP ratings as well. The regular racer can see the differences. Everyone knows what is going on. Even the NHRA people in the Competition Department know the situation. We have representatives and comitties but it does not help. If you want to reach the individuals who are casting a blind eye to this and are the ones responsible for changes then look no further that the five members of the Competition Committee. They are the ones who are running this HP game.
Get ahold of them and you have the culprits. Good luck.

Now leave each other alone and go after this Committee.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA no further questions.

[art leong]

Originally Posted by Ron Ortiz

Forget all the nonsense Mustangs, Challengers, etc. If you want to be the bad boy in the country get a Cadillac. It may not go into the eights, but it will go further under than anyone else.

Now that some new cars can obliterate the rest of the field everyone is crying and bickering amongst themselves. I totally understand the situation as I have been in it more times than not for over twenty years.

The thing is anyone who wants to race Stock only has to look in the Classification Guide and pick the combo that they want. How fast do you want to go? How much money do you want to spend? Some combos are soft and some are not, but you do have a choice.

Some people want to run these new Fords with say unfair HP ratings. These individuals know that they are just scratching the surface of their true potential. Same goes with the Mopar clan. The bowtie people have had an advantage in the past, but it only has taken several years to realign them with the HP ratings. The sad thing is that these newer cars will eventually be corrected but the other sportsman racers will have left the sport due to frustration.

In the true form of competition we need all the new cars we can get. It will keep the sport alive. We need the older cars as they are a real representation of the sport and is the greatest car show as well. And believe it or not we really need the imports if we are going to draw in a new generation. It all still comes down to HP ratings whether new, old, domestic or foriegn.

The manufacturers know how to "play the new game" with HP ratings. Remember that well. The technical staffs and crews can see the descrepecies in HP ratings as well. The regular racer can see the differences. Everyone knows what is going on. Even the NHRA people in the Competition Department know the situation. We have representatives and comitties but it does not help. If you want to reach the individuals who are casting a blind eye to this and are the ones responsible for changes then look no further that the five members of the Competition Committee. They are the ones who are running this HP game.
Get ahold of them and you have the culprits. Good luck.

Now leave each other alone and go after this Committee.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA no further questions.

Ron has a good point If these new cars fit into CF/S or U/SA, would the choir be singing as loud?

[Jim Wahl]

Somehow I think we got a little off base here. It is not Jeff's fault, or Chrysler's fault, or Ford's fault that the NHRA has totally thrown out the rule book and allowed these Mustangs and Challengers into Stock. All of you know that if you were able to, you would build or have one built and go racing. Do I look forward to seeing Jeff in the other lane? NO! In fact I hope he will let us H/SA guys know when and where he will be running that beautiful mechanical work of art! This all comes down to the fact that NHRA has broken their own written rules and put these cars into Stock while giving them an indefensible HP rating. Hell, if they want to rate that 360 combo at 275hp then put my 360 back at 175hp! It makes just as much sense. I think maybe Jeff was sort of thumbing his nose at the NHRA when he let it all out on Thursday at the CajunNats and ran 10.50 @ 127. -1.65 under the new index! -1.95 under the old one! Jim

I guess since these engines use full aluminum roller rocker arms it must be ok for all SB Mopars to use them now?


."Ron has a good point If these new cars fit into CF/S or U/SA, would the choir be singing as loud?"

The answer to that one is very much a yes! I received everything but death threats when I qualified #1 many times with both the Cadillac and the Turbo Dodge! What nobody remembers that? And remember Mike Senia's Cadillac in T/SA and U/SA? We were driving Cadillac's before Cadillac's were cool!


.

[SSDiv6]

Originally Posted by Ron Ortiz

Forget all the nonsense Mustangs, Challengers, etc. If you want to be the bad boy in the country get a Cadillac. It may not go into the eights, but it will go further under than anyone else.

Now that some new cars can obliterate the rest of the field everyone is crying and bickering amongst themselves. I totally understand the situation as I have been in it more times than not for over twenty years.

The thing is anyone who wants to race Stock only has to look in the Classification Guide and pick the combo that they want. How fast do you want to go? How much money do you want to spend? Some combos are soft and some are not, but you do have a choice.

Some people want to run these new Fords with say unfair HP ratings. These individuals know that they are just scratching the surface of their true potential. Same goes with the Mopar clan. The bowtie people have had an advantage in the past, but it only has taken several years to realign them with the HP ratings. The sad thing is that these newer cars will eventually be corrected but the other sportsman racers will have left the sport due to frustration.

In the true form of competition we need all the new cars we can get. It will keep the sport alive. We need the older cars as they are a real representation of the sport and is the greatest car show as well. And believe it or not we really need the imports if we are going to draw in a new generation. It all still comes down to HP ratings whether new, old, domestic or foriegn.

The manufacturers know how to "play the new game" with HP ratings. Remember that well. The technical staffs and crews can see the descrepecies in HP ratings as well. The regular racer can see the differences. Everyone knows what is going on. Even the NHRA people in the Competition Department know the situation. We have representatives and comitties but it does not help. If you want to reach the individuals who are casting a blind eye to this and are the ones responsible for changes then look no further that the five members of the Competition Committee. They are the ones who are running this HP game.
Get ahold of them and you have the culprits. Good luck.

Now leave each other alone and go after this Committee.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA no further questions.

Good post.

I also wonder if given the assumption that GM had offered the Camaro or Corvette with the SC engine package, and NHRA put the combination in the books, and the CJ's and DP's were not available, if the controversy would be the same?

[dwydendorf]

Everyone is complaining about the low horsepower factors but other than bashing NHRA no one seems to have a solution to the AHFS which is flawed, so here goes. Instead of giving a certain percentage of horsepower, how about every six months if you trigger the one second under, you automatically move up one full class and your horsepower would be adjusted accordingly. That way no one has to add more weight, and the factors will get evened out faster. Now unless you can run an existing class, your car is factored into Super Stock if you don't make the stock weight break. Also if the class average is less than .5 under the index and no car with the same combo went more than .7 under you would automatically move down one full class and your horsepower would be adjusted accordingly. This would even the factors much faster and get things where they should be. Now let the flaming begin.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by dwydendorf

Everyone is complaining about the low horsepower factors but other than bashing NHRA no one seems to have a solution to the AHFS which is flawed, so here goes. Instead of giving a certain percentage of horsepower, how about every six months if you trigger the one second under, you automatically move up one full class and your horsepower would be adjusted accordingly. That way no one has to add more weight, and the factors will get evened out faster. Now unless you can run an existing class, your car is factored into Super Stock if you don't make the stock weight break. Also if the class average is less than .5 under the index and no car with the same combo went more than .7 under you would automatically move down one full class and your horsepower would be adjusted accordingly. This would even the factors much faster and get things where they should be. Now let the flaming begin.

Great Idea! Now everybody will just be dumping at the 330!

[Charley Downing]

what is your idea billy?

[Alan Roehrich]

Lynn McCarty has posted the solution to the AHFS problems repeatedly.

NHRA is not going to do it.

In fact, the AHFS solution and the changes necessary to make it work quickly were presented to NHRA by some of the SRAC members nearly two years ago. NHRA rejected it out of hand without even considering it. Several long time racers were involved in creating a solution, but NHRA does not care and will not be bothered with it.