A/SA First in the 9.80's

Mike Mans · 04-05-2010, 11:18 AM

I rarely ever post on these boards, but this topic is just nuts. I understand people's frustration with fast combinations, but why does everyone complain instead of go work on their own stuff? If you are running a combination that has been beaten to death over the life of the car, i feel for you - but complaining will never make you fast again. It is absolutely ludicrous that everyone has been raising hell over the fact that Ford and Chrysler have played by the rules set forth in the NHRA rulebook and have purpose built cars within the guidelines to be competitive. Having factory involvement again Stock and Super Stock is a blessing and will hopefully keep our classes thriving into the future. Everyone in any class can be capable of winning, no matter how fast you are (as long as you can run the index obviously). It's not like the guys with the new cars are out here winning every event, so who cares how fast they go? I think you should all be impressed that a boat of a Drag Pak car with a 372 cubic inch motor with no power adders can outrun an old school 426 hemi with two carburetors!! Believe it or not, this is supposed to happen - it's evolution and progression. If a new performance car can't outrun an old performance car - the new one has some terrible engineering involved.

I know this has to be a generational thing, because I've heard the impressive story numerous times about how Ben Wenzel bought his 1967 Z-28 Camaro new, brought it to the racetrack and won the US Nationals with it in 1967. Now why can't someone go and buy a new Cobra Jet and come out and do the same thing without being harassed? If anyone wants to see Stock and Super Stock continue, there needs to be a progression with technology and reason to attract new, youthful drivers or it will be dead in 15 years. I don't have any demographic numbers, but when you walk through the staging lanes for Stock or Super Stock it's very evident that roughly 75% of these guys won't be heavily involved within the next 10 to 15 years simply because of their age! You guys hate seeing new cars come out strong, but when you were younger and used to go to your local racetrack - were you pumped to see a 32 Chevy make a run? No, you were all jacked up about your '67 Cobra Jets, '69 Camaros, '68 Hemi's etc... Those cars were all relatively new and high performance. Now why would a youthful guy/girl want to come out to a drag strip and watch a full class of 45 year old cars putt down the track? Nowadays people are educated on fuel injection and computers. A carburetor hasn't been on a factory car in 20 years!!! Just because many of you get frustrated on the new technology, doesn't mean it shouldn't be involved in present day class racing.

So many of you want a new class for all of the new factory race cars, well - how about NHRA just creates a class for you instead. Nostalgia Stock. Otherwise, get back to work on your car not your keyboard.

Mike Mans

*** This post was not meant to insult or criticize anyone with older generation cars, I truly am a fan of them and appreciate old school muscle and performance.

Jack Matyas · 04-05-2010, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Mans

I rarely ever post on these boards, but this topic is just nuts. I understand people's frustration with fast combinations, but why does everyone complain instead of go work on their own stuff? If you are running a combination that has been beaten to death over the life of the car, i feel for you - but complaining will never make you fast again. It is absolutely ludicrous that everyone has been raising hell over the fact that Ford and Chrysler have played by the rules set forth in the NHRA rulebook and have purpose built cars within the guidelines to be competitive. Having factory involvement again Stock and Super Stock is a blessing and will hopefully keep our classes thriving into the future. Everyone in any class can be capable of winning, no matter how fast you are (as long as you can run the index obviously). It's not like the guys with the new cars are out here winning every event, so who cares how fast they go? I think you should all be impressed that a boat of a Drag Pak car with a 372 cubic inch motor with no power adders can outrun an old school 426 hemi with two carburetors!! Believe it or not, this is supposed to happen - it's evolution and progression. If a new performance car can't outrun an old performance car - the new one has some terrible engineering involved.

I know this has to be a generational thing, because I've heard the impressive story numerous times about how Ben Wenzel bought his 1967 Z-28 Camaro new, brought it to the racetrack and won the US Nationals with it in 1967. Now why can't someone go and buy a new Cobra Jet and come out and do the same thing without being harassed? If anyone wants to see Stock and Super Stock continue, there needs to be a progression with technology and reason to attract new, youthful drivers or it will be dead in 15 years. I don't have any demographic numbers, but when you walk through the staging lanes for Stock or Super Stock it's very evident that roughly 75% of these guys won't be heavily involved within the next 10 to 15 years simply because of their age! You guys hate seeing new cars come out strong, but when you were younger and used to go to your local racetrack - were you pumped to see a 32 Chevy make a run? No, you were all jacked up about your '67 Cobra Jets, '69 Camaros, '68 Hemi's etc... Those cars were all relatively new and high performance. Now why would a youthful guy/girl want to come out to a drag strip and watch a full class of 45 year old cars putt down the track? Nowadays people are educated on fuel injection and computers. A carburetor hasn't been on a factory car in 20 years!!! Just because many of you get frustrated on the new technology, doesn't mean it shouldn't be involved in present day class racing.

So many of you want a new class for all of the new factory race cars, well - how about NHRA just creates a class for you instead. Nostalgia Stock. Otherwise, get back to work on your car not your keyboard.

Mike Mans

*** This post was not meant to insult or criticize anyone with older generation cars, I truly am a fan of them and appreciate old school muscle and performance.

Mike -Very well written -- and thanks - now there are two of us that think this way.......

Dave Ficacci · 04-05-2010, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Mans

I understand people's frustration with fast combinations, but why does everyone complain instead of go work on their own stuff?

Yeah, that's the answer... I need to work on my stuff more to run with the DPs and CJs... wtf?

It is absolutely ludicrous that everyone has been raising hell over the fact that Ford and Chrysler have played by the rules set forth in the NHRA rulebook and have purpose built cars within the guidelines to be competitive.

People aren't raising hell with Ford or Chrysler, its with NHRA who factors these cars. The fact that the 2010 CJ is 425 and the 08 is 439 is another F U from NHRA to everyone that runs in A or AA. 68-69 Camaros, Nova and Chevelles carry the same rating, so do 93-97 Camaros/Firebirds, 98-02 Camaros/Firebirds...Why are these cars rated differently?

Everyone in any class can be capable of winning, no matter how fast you are (as long as you can run the index obviously).

Until you run one heads up.

It's not like the guys with the new cars are out here winning every event, so who cares how fast they go?

People who run AA and A do.

Mike Mans

Mike,

I agree with everything you have said, except for what I have quoted above. The new cars are great for the sport, but not for those directly affected by their existence within their class.

For someone who has maybe 1 or 2 other SS/CS car at an event you enter other than Indy, your comments hold no substance with me . Until you run one 4th round heads up at a National event, you wont understand. You can probably count the total amount of heads up races you've had in CS over your career on 1 hand. While most anyone who runs in the same classes as these new cars have 5 heads up or so by mid season. This number will continue to go way up, and your winning percentage will go way down when you line up to one of these grossly under factored cars.

The problem right now might be small because there aren't that many out there.... but by the end of the year there will be around 10 of these at every race here in D1. The chances of running into one of these cars become much more of a possibility. Bringing a knife to a gun fight is not my idea of fun.

I guess I should go work on my stuff now...I know i have 3 tenths somewhere to catch these guys.

Jack Matyas · 04-05-2010, 01:13 PM

[QUOTE=Dave Ficacci;180106

Until you run one 4th round heads up at a National event, you wont understand. ....... but by the end of the year there will be around 10 of these at every race here in D1. The chances of running into one of these cars become much more of a possibility.

Dave -- I feel your pain as I too lost earlier this year to a heads-up at a National event during the 4th round - but to an old car - so the roles were reversed . As for there being 10 of these at every event -- that may be a premature thought ..............and they won't all be in the same class if they did show up .

B Aceves · 04-05-2010, 07:47 PM

[QUOTE=Jack Matyas;180111][QUOTE=Dave Ficacci;180106

Until you run one 4th round heads up at a National event, you wont understand. ....... but by the end of the year there will be around 10 of these at every race here in D1. The chances of running into one of these cars become much more of a possibility.

Dave -- I feel your pain as I too lost earlier this year to a heads-up at a National event during the 4th round - but to an old car - so the roles were reversed . As for there being 10 of these at every event -- that may be a premature thought ..............and they won't all be in the same class if they did show up .[/QUOTE]

No, But they will be running in our Classes Jack and there wont be any roles to reverse
when that happens. Well except in my case lol...

Bob Aceves
#746 E/SA

Chris "drooze" Wertman · 04-05-2010, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Ficacci

Mike,

I agree with everything you have said, except for what I have quoted above. The new cars are great for the sport, but not for those directly affected by their existence within their class.

I guess I should go work on my stuff now...I know i have 3 tenths somewhere to catch these guys.

Well Dave, to point 1....I would love to know (being the nosy DP guy I am what 10 cars will be on the track ?) Im serious....

To point two I was recently notified today of the cause for our failures the secret squirrels we ordered were trained in china and had counterfit SSQ tags affixed at the distributor. They have promised us a new batch of Secret Squirrels guarenteed to work, although not trained yet to correct my spelling. Let me know if you need any

Alan Roehrich · 04-05-2010, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Mans

I know this has to be a generational thing, because I've heard the impressive story numerous times about how Ben Wenzel bought his 1967 Z-28 Camaro new, brought it to the racetrack and won the US Nationals with it in 1967.

So many of you want a new class for all of the new factory race cars, well - how about NHRA just creates a class for you instead. Nostalgia Stock. Otherwise, get back to work on your car not your keyboard.

Mike Mans

*** This post was not meant to insult or criticize anyone with older generation cars, I truly am a fan of them and appreciate old school muscle and performance.

Interesting parallel or comparison you attempt to draw there. But in 1967, you could go to the dealership and buy a new 1967 Z-28 Camaro and DRIVE it home. It had a VIN, emissions equipment, safety equipment, and there were 602 built. It was a regular production option, available to the general public, to drive on the street. The 302 was just a throw together piece Vince Piggins came up with to make the Camaro legal in SCCA Trans Am racing, it didn't even have a thing to do with drag racing. The car was not even a purpose built race car, drag race or not.

If we could get our car as fast as the fastest ones like it in the country, cars that have been thrashed for 30 years, it still wouldn't come close to the purpose built race cars. Care to tell us what we should do to it? We can't just go buy a different set of ported heads or a cam with more lift, or another intake, or the latest trick carburetor. So by all means tell us what we should do to our cars when we get back to the shop tomorrow.

For decades, the rules for Stock Eliminator were specifically written so that purpose built race cars were not legal. All sorts of cars were excluded, because they were not factory built production cars sold in quantity to the general public. For an easy and well known example, you can't race a 67 L-88 Corvette in Stock, because there were only 36 built and sold to the general public (word is there were others sold through back door channels to racers). But you can now race a car that was NEVER sold to the general public, never passed emissions, never had safety equipment, never had a VIN, and in fact couldn't even be driven away from the dealer.

The most basic rule for Stock Eliminator has completely changed. It changes the basic character of the class.

The thing is, this thing with the new cars isn't like anything in the past. People keep trying to act like it is, but it isn't. Because cars like this have never been legal for Stock. It doesn't matter how many times people try to say it is just like past history, it doesn't make it so.

And now, yet another person who never has to face one of these cars heads up feels compelled to come in and tell us all how we should all just smile and "take one for the team", and feel privileged to "do it for the good of the class".

And we keep hearing how good this is supposed to be for the sport. But I can't see how it's a good business model. I have yet to see a business just decide to mistreat its current customers in order to draw new customers, and be successful. It doesn't make sense. If you look at business, it generally costs about 2-3 times as much to gain a new customer as it does to keep an old customer. So I just can't see how telling a big percentage of long time customers to take a screwing and like it in order to draw a small number of new customers is a solid long term business model.

Another thing about those "new customers". If the only way to get those "new customers" is to give them some sort of ridiculous advantage over the current customers, how long will the "new customers" stay when someone else is given the same thing, and the "new customers" advantage is gone?

I don't have anything against the people who bought the new cars, it isn't their fault. NHRA opened up the rulebook and changed it, they didn't. They just took advantage of an opportunity they were given by NHRA.

NHRA has created a whole new precedent here. I wonder how happy people will be when NHRA decides to make another wholesale change that has a less than enjoyable effect on them. I wonder if it will still be so wonderful if a year or two from now NHRA decides to make these expensive new cars obsolete by letting in another ringer or two.

Mike Mans · 04-05-2010, 08:28 PM

I hope you guys don't think I'm defending the horsepower factoring system, because we all know it has it's flaws. They do USUALLY get ironed out over time, but yes they are present and probably will be for the foreseeable future.

Dave, I'm not saying your combination is bad - but it's easy to see on paper that the new Cobra Jets and Drag Paks are better. I would assume if you look at it from an outsider's view you would say the same am i right? The largest difference is yes, these two auto makers are stepping up and putting their efforts back into drag racing - which desperately needs it. I feel for you guys with the old muscle cars, I really do - they're a great piece of auto history. And I am sure that you guys work hard and spend plenty of money on your car, it's fast - it shows. Does it suck? Yes, and I do know the feeling. We've raced in other classes where we've had competition with these weak factored combinations. No matter how you slice it, it won't change quick enough to make you the fastest guy around again any time soon. This is the same stuff in Stock and Super Stock. We now have Rock Haas with his bad to the bone Cobra Jet that just went 8.97 in SS/DA! But you know, Brian Oakes continues to come right back and go faster yet with his old '69 technology.

The point is this, you're combination isn't bad, your car isn't slow, you don't sit around and wish it to be faster - these new cars are just plain built and manufactured with better technology and NHRA will probably be slow to put the power to where it should be at. Heck, you (and I) are still using old carburetors which aren't even used on leave blowers now days - and these new cars have throttle bodies the size of my waist letting all the air in!

Due point has to be made for the 2010 CJ's in that these motors are different from their 2008 counterparts and that is why they have the 425 rating again. I'm sure it is under-factored, but hopefully for you one of these guys will go out and go 1.25 under and help the cause in a quicker way.

There is one point that I don't think many people in the Stock or even Super Stock community realize on these factory race cars right now. It's not like these are a bunch of bone stock motors with a lot of room for improvement. The Ford motors are assembled in a special engine development area by only two guys. These motors have been refined before they were ever released and there really is hardly any room for improvement. And the fast Drag Pak cars including Irvin Johns and many others to come have horsepower from Jeff Taylor. Now you tell me - you have a guy with all of the latest Comp and Pro Stock technology applied to a stock eliminator motor how could these not be fast?

To respond to your statement if BS and CS were combined, yes that would definitely hurt our program and I would obviously be pissed. But as we've done before - we would have to start off in a new direction. If I were in your shoes I would just get out of A and AA and let those guys beat each other up and be the bad guy in B/SA? What's wrong with that? If there is an advantage to be had, why not take it? If these guys are entering AA and A, why show up in their class and give them an immediate advantage? Let them go out, race each other heads up and go to fast amongst themselves and then hop back in when its manageable?

And to this Alan Roehrich clown, who the heck are you? I've looked over qualifying sheets from the last several years and you are on 1 (Bristol '08)? You asked me for ideas on how to improve your engine program, I would start by actually racing and learning. Or, better yet - call Dave Walther. He has a '69 G/S that went -1.31 in Reynolds last year - looks like he my have figured out some of the stuff you're still scratching yourself trying to learn.

Alan Roehrich · 04-05-2010, 08:56 PM

Clown?

So, you want to resort to name calling. Class act. Congratulations on already losing the argument.

I'm not driving right now, I'm concentrating on someone else's program, I'll worry about another car for myself when I'm satisfied with his program.

I raced Walther when I drove that car, I happen to know the guy. And Donnie Beeler, too. The car belonged to the guy I crew chief for, he was nice enough to let me drive 3-4 races before he sold it. I don't think Walther is going to be able to help me too much with our 427/425 program. Probably won't be able to help me much with our other big block program either.

Care to open your mouth about more things you don't know too much about?

I've never heard of you either, I guess you just aren't quite as great as you think you are.

Ken Miele · 04-05-2010, 09:15 PM

Not that it means much, but the 2010 CJ 5.4 for Stock is rated at 435 not 425. I feel your pain Dave, but I have to agree with Mike.

I have been racing along time. When I figured out my combo and was starting to run with the fast guys in the mid to late 90's, it only lasted for a year or so. The 396 guys found something and were walking away from me like I was standing still. I had to deal with it like I have to deal with the new CJ's and DP's.

I think there is more creditability to this thread with racers that have actually had to run these cars. My race was not as crucial as Dave's, mine was in class. Dave was in the four round, so I do understand were he is coming from, but me and Dave are on opposite sides of this debate.

I love the new cars in stock, even though it makes my car less competitive. I think its good for the Drag Racing, I could not imagine racing in the 1960's and having to drive a stocker that was 40 years old.

I'm happy I have a place to race my old relict. who knows NHRA may relax the rules some day and let the old cars run new engines. I know the purist would hate it, but a least we would run with the new cars.

Mike, be prepared to take a lot of heat on this one. Class Racer members can be..... lets just say tough on opposites views, especially this one.

Alan, Mike Mans is a very well know racer with a very fast SS/CS car. Although I would not have chosen those words, I think he may be a little frustrated with your view on this subject. I'm sure he can speak for himself, but I do agree name calling is not the best way to get a point across.

04-05-2010, 11:18 AM	#1
Mike Mans Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 177 Likes: 21 Liked 299 Times in 48 Posts	Re: A/SA First in the 9.80's I rarely ever post on these boards, but this topic is just nuts. I understand people's frustration with fast combinations, but why does everyone complain instead of go work on their own stuff? If you are running a combination that has been beaten to death over the life of the car, i feel for you - but complaining will never make you fast again. It is absolutely ludicrous that everyone has been raising hell over the fact that Ford and Chrysler have played by the rules set forth in the NHRA rulebook and have purpose built cars within the guidelines to be competitive. Having factory involvement again Stock and Super Stock is a blessing and will hopefully keep our classes thriving into the future. Everyone in any class can be capable of winning, no matter how fast you are (as long as you can run the index obviously). It's not like the guys with the new cars are out here winning every event, so who cares how fast they go? I think you should all be impressed that a boat of a Drag Pak car with a 372 cubic inch motor with no power adders can outrun an old school 426 hemi with two carburetors!! Believe it or not, this is supposed to happen - it's evolution and progression. If a new performance car can't outrun an old performance car - the new one has some terrible engineering involved. I know this has to be a generational thing, because I've heard the impressive story numerous times about how Ben Wenzel bought his 1967 Z-28 Camaro new, brought it to the racetrack and won the US Nationals with it in 1967. Now why can't someone go and buy a new Cobra Jet and come out and do the same thing without being harassed? If anyone wants to see Stock and Super Stock continue, there needs to be a progression with technology and reason to attract new, youthful drivers or it will be dead in 15 years. I don't have any demographic numbers, but when you walk through the staging lanes for Stock or Super Stock it's very evident that roughly 75% of these guys won't be heavily involved within the next 10 to 15 years simply because of their age! You guys hate seeing new cars come out strong, but when you were younger and used to go to your local racetrack - were you pumped to see a 32 Chevy make a run? No, you were all jacked up about your '67 Cobra Jets, '69 Camaros, '68 Hemi's etc... Those cars were all relatively new and high performance. Now why would a youthful guy/girl want to come out to a drag strip and watch a full class of 45 year old cars putt down the track? Nowadays people are educated on fuel injection and computers. A carburetor hasn't been on a factory car in 20 years!!! Just because many of you get frustrated on the new technology, doesn't mean it shouldn't be involved in present day class racing. So many of you want a new class for all of the new factory race cars, well - how about NHRA just creates a class for you instead. Nostalgia Stock. Otherwise, get back to work on your car not your keyboard. Mike Mans *** This post was not meant to insult or criticize anyone with older generation cars, I truly am a fan of them and appreciate old school muscle and performance.

04-05-2010, 01:13 PM	#4
Jack Matyas Live Reporter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Bethlehem , PA -Christmas City , USA Posts: 4,931 Likes: 407 Liked 2,052 Times in 400 Posts	Re: A/SA First in the 9.80's [QUOTE=Dave Ficacci;180106 Until you run one 4th round heads up at a National event, you wont understand. ....... but by the end of the year there will be around 10 of these at every race here in D1. The chances of running into one of these cars become much more of a possibility. Dave -- I feel your pain as I too lost earlier this year to a heads-up at a National event during the 4th round - but to an old car - so the roles were reversed . As for there being 10 of these at every event -- that may be a premature thought ..............and they won't all be in the same class if they did show up . __________________ Jack Matyas 1547 FS/C 2015 Camaro COPO # 62- 2012 Camaro Convertible COPO

04-05-2010, 07:47 PM	#5
B Aceves Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 457 Likes: 1 Liked 7 Times in 4 Posts	Re: A/SA First in the 9.80's [QUOTE=Jack Matyas;180111][QUOTE=Dave Ficacci;180106 Until you run one 4th round heads up at a National event, you wont understand. ....... but by the end of the year there will be around 10 of these at every race here in D1. The chances of running into one of these cars become much more of a possibility. Dave -- I feel your pain as I too lost earlier this year to a heads-up at a National event during the 4th round - but to an old car - so the roles were reversed . As for there being 10 of these at every event -- that may be a premature thought ..............and they won't all be in the same class if they did show up .[/QUOTE] No, But they will be running in our Classes Jack and there wont be any roles to reverse when that happens. Well except in my case lol... Bob Aceves #746 E/SA __________________ Bob Aceves, 746 E/SA A&M motorsports Last edited by B Aceves; 04-05-2010 at 07:51 PM.

04-05-2010, 08:28 PM	#8
Mike Mans Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 177 Likes: 21 Liked 299 Times in 48 Posts	Re: A/SA First in the 9.80's I hope you guys don't think I'm defending the horsepower factoring system, because we all know it has it's flaws. They do USUALLY get ironed out over time, but yes they are present and probably will be for the foreseeable future. Dave, I'm not saying your combination is bad - but it's easy to see on paper that the new Cobra Jets and Drag Paks are better. I would assume if you look at it from an outsider's view you would say the same am i right? The largest difference is yes, these two auto makers are stepping up and putting their efforts back into drag racing - which desperately needs it. I feel for you guys with the old muscle cars, I really do - they're a great piece of auto history. And I am sure that you guys work hard and spend plenty of money on your car, it's fast - it shows. Does it suck? Yes, and I do know the feeling. We've raced in other classes where we've had competition with these weak factored combinations. No matter how you slice it, it won't change quick enough to make you the fastest guy around again any time soon. This is the same stuff in Stock and Super Stock. We now have Rock Haas with his bad to the bone Cobra Jet that just went 8.97 in SS/DA! But you know, Brian Oakes continues to come right back and go faster yet with his old '69 technology. The point is this, you're combination isn't bad, your car isn't slow, you don't sit around and wish it to be faster - these new cars are just plain built and manufactured with better technology and NHRA will probably be slow to put the power to where it should be at. Heck, you (and I) are still using old carburetors which aren't even used on leave blowers now days - and these new cars have throttle bodies the size of my waist letting all the air in! Due point has to be made for the 2010 CJ's in that these motors are different from their 2008 counterparts and that is why they have the 425 rating again. I'm sure it is under-factored, but hopefully for you one of these guys will go out and go 1.25 under and help the cause in a quicker way. There is one point that I don't think many people in the Stock or even Super Stock community realize on these factory race cars right now. It's not like these are a bunch of bone stock motors with a lot of room for improvement. The Ford motors are assembled in a special engine development area by only two guys. These motors have been refined before they were ever released and there really is hardly any room for improvement. And the fast Drag Pak cars including Irvin Johns and many others to come have horsepower from Jeff Taylor. Now you tell me - you have a guy with all of the latest Comp and Pro Stock technology applied to a stock eliminator motor how could these not be fast? To respond to your statement if BS and CS were combined, yes that would definitely hurt our program and I would obviously be pissed. But as we've done before - we would have to start off in a new direction. If I were in your shoes I would just get out of A and AA and let those guys beat each other up and be the bad guy in B/SA? What's wrong with that? If there is an advantage to be had, why not take it? If these guys are entering AA and A, why show up in their class and give them an immediate advantage? Let them go out, race each other heads up and go to fast amongst themselves and then hop back in when its manageable? And to this Alan Roehrich clown, who the heck are you? I've looked over qualifying sheets from the last several years and you are on 1 (Bristol '08)? You asked me for ideas on how to improve your engine program, I would start by actually racing and learning. Or, better yet - call Dave Walther. He has a '69 G/S that went -1.31 in Reynolds last year - looks like he my have figured out some of the stuff you're still scratching yourself trying to learn.

04-05-2010, 08:56 PM	#9
Alan Roehrich Veteran Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Murfreesboro TN Posts: 5,116 Likes: 1,573 Liked 1,831 Times in 415 Posts	Re: A/SA First in the 9.80's Clown? So, you want to resort to name calling. Class act. Congratulations on already losing the argument. I'm not driving right now, I'm concentrating on someone else's program, I'll worry about another car for myself when I'm satisfied with his program. I raced Walther when I drove that car, I happen to know the guy. And Donnie Beeler, too. The car belonged to the guy I crew chief for, he was nice enough to let me drive 3-4 races before he sold it. I don't think Walther is going to be able to help me too much with our 427/425 program. Probably won't be able to help me much with our other big block program either. Care to open your mouth about more things you don't know too much about? I've never heard of you either, I guess you just aren't quite as great as you think you are. __________________ Alan Roehrich 212A G/S

04-05-2010, 09:15 PM	#10
Ken Miele Live Reporter Join Date: Dec 2000 Posts: 4,862 Likes: 461 Liked 16,560 Times in 1,523 Posts	Re: A/SA First in the 9.80's Not that it means much, but the 2010 CJ 5.4 for Stock is rated at 435 not 425. I feel your pain Dave, but I have to agree with Mike. I have been racing along time. When I figured out my combo and was starting to run with the fast guys in the mid to late 90's, it only lasted for a year or so. The 396 guys found something and were walking away from me like I was standing still. I had to deal with it like I have to deal with the new CJ's and DP's. I think there is more creditability to this thread with racers that have actually had to run these cars. My race was not as crucial as Dave's, mine was in class. Dave was in the four round, so I do understand were he is coming from, but me and Dave are on opposite sides of this debate. I love the new cars in stock, even though it makes my car less competitive. I think its good for the Drag Racing, I could not imagine racing in the 1960's and having to drive a stocker that was 40 years old. I'm happy I have a place to race my old relict. who knows NHRA may relax the rules some day and let the old cars run new engines. I know the purist would hate it, but a least we would run with the new cars. Mike, be prepared to take a lot of heat on this one. Class Racer members can be..... lets just say tough on opposites views, especially this one. Alan, Mike Mans is a very well know racer with a very fast SS/CS car. Although I would not have chosen those words, I think he may be a little frustrated with your view on this subject. I'm sure he can speak for himself, but I do agree name calling is not the best way to get a point across.