Once again a bogus combination

[dwydendorf]

As a loyal Ford racer I have been looking upon this whole thread with a little amusement because finally the shoe is on the other foot for a change. While I don't want to rub too much salt in your wounds, if many of you claim this is about fairness instead of brand loyality, where were your complaints when the new Camaros and Firebirds were dominant? I started racing back in the early 1970"s and Killer cars were around then, just the same as they are now. You claim that the mismatch is greater now but that is not true. There were always cars that had a half second advantage on other cars in their class- nothing new there. What is new is that GM is struggling as of late and the U.S. Government is watching over GM. The reason I mention this is because NHRA cannot look to GM for some of the perks that have plentiful in the past. If you add up the dollars that NHRA saves by having a car manufacturer provide Cars and Trucks to NHRA you can understand why it is good not to make Ford angry. That somehow changes the political structure at NHRA and all of a sudden makes Ford the one favorable to NHRA. Like it or not, its politics, and has nothing to do with Republicans and Democrats. Now if you think that NHRA is going to cater to a handful of whiny Stock and Super Stock Racers over trying not to piss off Ford you are mistaken. Most racers can't stick together enough to leverage any power against NHRA, and if the truth is known they would probably want to get rid of us before that happens. With that being said what are you going to do about it? I was talking to a well noted racer who just had his class invaded by one of the new cars that is going as fast if not faster than he is. I asked him what he was going to do? He said I will continue to do my own thing just like I allways have, and not worry about what they are doing. I said I was also going to do the same There have been two times that I have won class at the U.S. Nationals that I shouldn't have. Both times the other cars were much faster than me but I won. I won't embarass those racers by filling in the details, but the bottom line is if you don't show up and do your own thing, you can't win.

[Jack McCarthy]

greg...tell andrew i get a pass in it too... im just a station wagon kinda guy

ken > if you with your a/sa car cant see the snowball rolling at you im sure me pointing it out aint gonna help...

as far as im concerned if i have no chance to win class or a heads up race then i might just as well run brackets. just so happens that currently i have this killer caddy in my class and relish opportunities to race him and try to get him hp'ed into t/sa so i can return to the top of the class -or damn close (clayton). i am glad no new bogus paper car will ever be built for u/sa

you will never outrun the mustang or the mopar, you will never win class again and that is a crying shame > you have a great car and one the spectators love to see race especially in a showdown with a 69 camaro... best class race i ever saw was hawk and lil jimmy at indy !

i believe that the rampant changes in the rules have bastardized the class i grew up in and dearly love... i have paid NHRA my membership dues for 36 years for them to protect the integrity of my class... and ive been screwed. never again will a smart guy from sedalia missouri be able to use his intelligence not his wallet to build a car to be #1 qualifier at indy... it will be a mustang or a mopar for the foreseeable future.

thats what i meant by it has ruined the class

just my opinion, and like everyone knows we all think ours is right.
captain jack

[Ken Miele]

Jack,

Never say never. I don't think anybody 10 years ago would have believed that these combo's would have ever been built. The same logic should be applied when it comes to being able to run with these new combo's. To just lay down and die is not my way. I have been out run by many combo's over the years and at times told myself I would never be able to run with these guys. As the years went on, things changed and I was able to catch up. One thing life has taught me, nothing stays the same. GM had there day in the sun, now the sun shines on Ford and Chrysler.

You can throw the towel in, I will not. Yeah I see the snowball, it rolled over me in the 80's, 90's and its about to get me again, so what. I have never even come close to qualifying number one, but I have won the eliminator few times. As far as I am concerned give me a win over number one anytime. And for me not ever wining class again, don't bet on it

And as far having the intelligence to build the number one qualifier. The intelligence needed is to fine the softest combo in the books. Today's technology is available to most along with building techniques.

I do not think there would be to much of an uproar if the new combo's were in W Stock, with all do respect to the racers that run that class.

Jack, I do agree on your take about opinions, but it does make for some interesting perspectives.

[Jack McCarthy]

ken it is nice to exchange opposing opinions on this forum with someone else who obviously loves the sport, can speak eloquently, and not get bent out of shape when someone doesnt agree with them...

good luck with the paper cars, ill be pulling for you (unless your running irvin johns i still owe him too many favors) !!

jack mccarthy

[Dean Roberts]

Alan, your spin on reality is funny. Most agree that the engines are clearly underrated. OK, we get it. and I know the LT1 engine was already in the book, however, by '98 GM stopped using that engine in the F-body. So, why is it OK for GM to do what ford and Dodge are doing?

Your answer is "two wrongs don't make a right," but I don't see you lobbying to have those cars removed from competition? Nor does Greg care about that. Again, I ask why? Because the engine was already legal?

OK, two wrongs don't make a right. We heard that, boo hoo. This is reality and life is not fair. It's not fair in the workplace, on the sportsfield and in racing. Someone always has the advantage and now it's Dodge and Ford having a chance in the limelight. Yes, the cars are underrated, but Stock will not go away, people will race and have plenty of fun.

NHRA set precedent by allowing GM to run this car, period! The level of performance is irrelevant.

[Bruce Noland]

Many precedents don't turn out so well. In the real world the precedent you reference here would be quickly reversed.

Also, you left out a very important point. Pay to Play. That is what nhra and the OEMs have been up to for a very long time. We all have a better understanding of this corrupt process because of this site. Even ten years ago the racers did not have this valuable asset to get together and figure out what is actually going on here. Remember the muffler deal. The Internet sites helped to prevent that deal from going down. And the Internet sites helped move the GM cars into injected classes. So we are moving in the right direction now. It will soon become the norm around racing that a sanctioning body will not be allowed to "feed" off of it's membership. Even though at least one sanctioning body claims to have no members.

Yes, it's easy to look back now and see that nhra made, what I consider, underhanded deals. And just because they got away with this behavior in the past does not mean that they should get away with it today. Times have changed and nhra will have to change it's practices as well.

Why do the new crate motor cars have to run in regular Stock classes? How is anybody injured by placing them in injected classes? Injected classes made a lot of sense before - why not now?

[Evan Smith]

Bruce, personally, I hated the injected classes and so did many other racers. During those years my car was no faster than a good-running carbureted 305 Camaro, or a 360 or 283, but I got to race myself for five years. BORING! While the LT1 cars were very fast, there were many EFI racers with cars that were not killers and they blended nicely in the regular classes.

It was much more fun racing you, Henry, Stevie and Bobby F. and the rest of the Jr. Stockers.

I understand your point about underrated cars, but segregation is not the answer.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Dean Roberts

NHRA set precedent by allowing GM to run this car, period! The level of performance is irrelevant.

Actually, Dean, you are the master of spin. The LT-1 was not only already in the guide in the 97 cars, but it was also a production engine, fully certified for street use. There is no performance advantage held by a 98 F body with an LT-1 over a 97 F body with an LT-1, you're just grasping for straws to support an argument that has no basis in fact or reality. Unlike the LT-1 you constantly cry about, no engine in the Drag Pack cars is certified for street use, nor were they already in the guide. The same applies to the crate engines in the new Mustangs.

The bogus factors is only irrelevant in your mind. Reality is far different than the dreamworld you are trying to create by saying crate engines never certified for street use, installed in cars that won't even run or move when you buy them, are the same as a year old production engine in a new production car.

[Greg Hill]

It's Monday morning and I got back last night from our first Bowling Green combo race at about 9;00 p.m., Andrew and I both lost first round. These new cars and the crate motor deals that have been approved were a major topic of discussion. I didn't talk to one person who felt like these new cars with the hp ratings they have were good for stock eliminator. A lot of people don't post on here and quite frankly don't even look at the site. A good friend of mine and a guy that builds a few stock eliminator motors had no clue about the crate motors that are legal for the new Challenger and Mustang. When I filled him in on these motors and the specs along with the hp ratings his comment was " Are you f@#$ing kidding me?" He went on to say " Why would someone build one of these cars?" What gratification would there be when all along you know you are running in the wrong class?" This is a guy that runs a 69 Camaro with a 302 rated at 309hp.

I truly think people are just beginning to realize how these cars are going to affect them and the sport they love. A lot of people feel there is nothing they can do about it. They feel powerless and are not vocal because they think NHRA will punish them if they speak out. If we do nothing then we become powerless. if we continue to go to National events we condone what NHRA does. It makes us complicit in the whole process. There are good racers that are truly thinking about quitting because they feel they can't compete any
more.

Another good friend of mine who doesn't post on here and has one of the fastest G/SA cars in the country told me after watching Jeff run 10.57 in H/SA at Belle Rose he was depressed for the rest of the weekend. I don't know if anything we do can change what's happening to stock and eventually super stock,but I do know one thing if we don't try to change it we get what we deserve.