Original hemi dart information

FINESPLINE · 09-20-2010, 07:27 PM

Paul, You have found heaven in this thread. Daryl and you have to get together for a few cold ones when this is all over. LOL ------John

mike koester 66 nova · 09-20-2010, 07:40 PM

paul or mark j, Arlen Vanke also raced a orange b/mp hemi dart at indy
us nats, either in 69 or 70. I thought the dart was from upper new york
area maybe buffalo. got any info on the original owner and what did arlen
do with the dart.

Paul Ceasrine · 09-20-2010, 08:23 PM

John "FINESPLINE"

And many shots too!!!
If I could only go back to 1968, and use my 'then' college trust fund to purchase a couple of cars.
Amazing, how many of them became available in late 1969 and 1970,
right after the Winternationals.
$5500 was just about the going price for a non Big Name car.

pc

Liteweight · 09-20-2010, 08:47 PM

Paul
WHOA!!! Hold on there Bubba-Louie!!!! The Ed Miller car is NOT mine, I am just doing a bunch of work on it for the owner. At this time I am not at liberty to say what car number it is, or the paint scheme that's going on it, because it is not mine. Sorry!!!

JSL Racing
To return one of these cars back to it's 68-70 status is like walking a tightrope. Most of them went through many modifications, some alot more than others. Remember these things were just workhorses back then & collectability was nowhere in the picture. Very few cars survived uncut in some way or another. When a person wants to restore one of these things, first off you have to decide from what era you want it to resemble, because they changed alot through the years of racing. You don't want to remove anymore of the original car than you absolutely have to, because you have to keep as much of the cars identity as possible. Each car is different in how much you gotta replace. So it is a balancing act, & ultimately it is up to the owner how he wants it done. But, yes,rust free parts cars are a absolute asset when restoring a Hurst car. When you think of it tho, just about any car that requires any kind of resto. work will require some sort of parts car.

M68
You keep on blowing me away with your pix. HOLY CRAP Man.!!! Very Cool!!!! Keep them coming!!!!. Even after I find the history on my car,(if that ever happens) this thead will continue due to the input & interest yous' guys are putting into it. Well Done!!!

Liteweight
Daryl

mopar68 · 09-21-2010, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liteweight

Paul
WHOA!!! Hold on there Bubba-Louie!!!! The Ed Miller car is NOT mine, I am just doing a bunch of work on it for the owner. At this time I am not at liberty to say what car number it is, or the paint scheme that's going on it, because it is not mine. Sorry!!!

JSL Racing
To return one of these cars back to it's 68-70 status is like walking a tightrope. Most of them went through many modifications, some alot more than others. Remember these things were just workhorses back then & collectability was nowhere in the picture. Very few cars survived uncut in some way or another. When a person wants to restore one of these things, first off you have to decide from what era you want it to resemble, because they changed alot through the years of racing. You don't want to remove anymore of the original car than you absolutely have to, because you have to keep as much of the cars identity as possible. Each car is different in how much you gotta replace. So it is a balancing act, & ultimately it is up to the owner how he wants it done. But, yes,rust free parts cars are a absolute asset when restoring a Hurst car. When you think of it tho, just about any car that requires any kind of resto. work will require some sort of parts car.

M68
You keep on blowing me away with your pix. HOLY CRAP Man.!!! Very Cool!!!! Keep them coming!!!!. Even after I find the history on my car,(if that ever happens) this thead will continue due to the input & interest yous' guys are putting into it. Well Done!!!

Liteweight
Daryl

Thanks, Daryl, Paul, etc. I'm just sharing what I've found on the 'net over the years. Speaking of which, is this the same Ed Miller Barracuda you're working on...or a different car?

M68

mopar68 · 09-21-2010, 11:10 AM

M68

JSLRacing · 09-21-2010, 11:52 AM

How much does a modified car hurt the sale value. Would a tubbed car still draw as much as a leaf spring car if it was original?

Anyone know if any of these cars still have the original engine. How would you know if it was. Did Chrysler affix any numbers to the block to correspond with the car it was going in?

Paul Ceasrine · 09-21-2010, 12:55 PM

Daryl,
I have my favorite Italian Ristorante' picked out.
And yes, my favorite dish...........GIADA.

I do think I have to research New Jersey and Pennsylvania for possible connections to your car.
There seems to be some lack of representation around ATCO for a Hemi Dart.

M68,
That Ed Miller SS/A car paint scheme is from 1970 and up. The earlier paint scheme SS/B was much nicer, and the car had Cragars all around.
Also, had Stevenson Garage on front fender, and Syracuse Region
Plymouth Dealers on back quarter.

Paul

davezinn · 09-21-2010, 12:55 PM

Jason, i think you have asked a very valid question and one that could go both ways in regards to is it worth or more desireable uncut or modified.

an example here is Ken Montgomery's Barracuda, i think that car is most desireable and valuable just the way it is. there are others too like the Red Light Bandit, the Fast Eddie car, even Daryl's that i think are best left as they are.

one car i think that could be better returned back to stock chassis set-up would be the Larry Griffith Dart if the plan is to keep it restored as that car. i liked it when it was all black, but now that it's got the Griffith paint back on it i think it looks weird, Larry didn't race it that way. interestingly though i think the 4-speed Landy car is just fine the way it is even though it's not the way it was when Landy raced it, at least the rear suspension. it still looks "right" where as the Griffith car to me again just looks weird for some reason.

one of the things that has bothered me for years concerning the C.O.P.O. Camaro's is that everyone wants to return those cars back to stock and destroy any history that they had as racecars. those cars in my opinion are the most boring things ever in restored stock condition, as racecars though i think they are very interesting. i could be wrong here but i think the collector market and values ruined what was alot of good historical racecars or those that had extensive racing histories.

Dave

Liteweight · 09-22-2010, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSLRacing

How much does a modified car hurt the sale value. Would a tubbed car still draw as much as a leaf spring car if it was original?

Anyone know if any of these cars still have the original engine. How would you know if it was. Did Chrysler affix any numbers to the block to correspond with the car it was going in?

That's a question that is really hard to answer. The market for these Hurst cars is very small, as they are not for everyone. What's an original untouched, as raced, car worth???? For the very few people that have them, they can ask just about anything they want, because of the rarity of this kind of car. Will they get it???? The only people that will pay the kind of price these will demand, know the historical significance of them. They are not for the weak of wallet.
What I call a "Pedigree" car, Dick Landy, Ronnie Sox, Arlen Vanke etc also has a very tall pricetag, & these don't seem to be bothered by the amount of work that has been done to them to bring them back.But they must be documented cars. Again, there is a very small market for these as most have landed up included in very expensive private collections.That's where my old Landy 4 spd. Hemi Dart went.
Next is the current legal SS/AH cars. You certainly don't see many of these actively racing anymore but there are a few left. Chuck Commela still races his, & he is the original owner too!! These cars have been modified so extensively to stay competitive in todays ranks, that they are best to be left as they are (in my opinion only). To restore one of these would not be economically feasible.
As far as the rest of them, the variables are just about infinate.It all depends on what you would pay for a certain car that you want.

As far as the original engines in these cars, there is no way of verifying them through serial numbers, because the cars were delivered to Hurst separately from the engines. The only way of varifying an original engine to the body would be through documentation from owners. Yes, as far as I know,there are a few with their original elfunt still in them, but they are few.

Liteweight
Daryl

09-20-2010, 07:27 PM	#1
FINESPLINE Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Island of high taxes, N.Y. Posts: 541 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Original hemi dart information Paul, You have found heaven in this thread. Daryl and you have to get together for a few cold ones when this is all over. LOL ------John

09-20-2010, 07:40 PM	#2
mike koester 66 nova Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 20 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Original hemi dart information paul or mark j, Arlen Vanke also raced a orange b/mp hemi dart at indy us nats, either in 69 or 70. I thought the dart was from upper new york area maybe buffalo. got any info on the original owner and what did arlen do with the dart.

09-20-2010, 08:23 PM	#3
Paul Ceasrine VIP Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 2,546 Likes: 0 Liked 10 Times in 10 Posts	Re: Original hemi dart information John "FINESPLINE" And many shots too!!! If I could only go back to 1968, and use my 'then' college trust fund to purchase a couple of cars. Amazing, how many of them became available in late 1969 and 1970, right after the Winternationals. $5500 was just about the going price for a non Big Name car. pc

09-20-2010, 08:47 PM	#4
Liteweight VIP Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,280 Likes: 23 Liked 31 Times in 19 Posts	Re: Original hemi dart information Paul WHOA!!! Hold on there Bubba-Louie!!!! The Ed Miller car is NOT mine, I am just doing a bunch of work on it for the owner. At this time I am not at liberty to say what car number it is, or the paint scheme that's going on it, because it is not mine. Sorry!!! JSL Racing To return one of these cars back to it's 68-70 status is like walking a tightrope. Most of them went through many modifications, some alot more than others. Remember these things were just workhorses back then & collectability was nowhere in the picture. Very few cars survived uncut in some way or another. When a person wants to restore one of these things, first off you have to decide from what era you want it to resemble, because they changed alot through the years of racing. You don't want to remove anymore of the original car than you absolutely have to, because you have to keep as much of the cars identity as possible. Each car is different in how much you gotta replace. So it is a balancing act, & ultimately it is up to the owner how he wants it done. But, yes,rust free parts cars are a absolute asset when restoring a Hurst car. When you think of it tho, just about any car that requires any kind of resto. work will require some sort of parts car. M68 You keep on blowing me away with your pix. HOLY CRAP Man.!!! Very Cool!!!! Keep them coming!!!!. Even after I find the history on my car,(if that ever happens) this thead will continue due to the input & interest yous' guys are putting into it. Well Done!!! Liteweight Daryl

09-21-2010, 11:10 AM	#6
mopar68 VIP Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,660 Likes: 8 Liked 44 Times in 27 Posts	Re: Original hemi dart information M68

09-21-2010, 11:52 AM	#7
JSLRacing Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bothwell,ON Posts: 131 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Original hemi dart information How much does a modified car hurt the sale value. Would a tubbed car still draw as much as a leaf spring car if it was original? Anyone know if any of these cars still have the original engine. How would you know if it was. Did Chrysler affix any numbers to the block to correspond with the car it was going in? __________________ Jason Goldsack - 1997 Track Champion - St. Thomas Dragway 1997 Race of Champions Winner - Indianapolis, IN Div. 3 finals

09-21-2010, 12:55 PM	#8
Paul Ceasrine VIP Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 2,546 Likes: 0 Liked 10 Times in 10 Posts	Re: Original hemi dart information Daryl, I have my favorite Italian Ristorante' picked out. And yes, my favorite dish...........GIADA. I do think I have to research New Jersey and Pennsylvania for possible connections to your car. There seems to be some lack of representation around ATCO for a Hemi Dart. M68, That Ed Miller SS/A car paint scheme is from 1970 and up. The earlier paint scheme SS/B was much nicer, and the car had Cragars all around. Also, had Stevenson Garage on front fender, and Syracuse Region Plymouth Dealers on back quarter. Paul

09-21-2010, 12:55 PM	#9
davezinn Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 42 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Original hemi dart information Jason, i think you have asked a very valid question and one that could go both ways in regards to is it worth or more desireable uncut or modified. an example here is Ken Montgomery's Barracuda, i think that car is most desireable and valuable just the way it is. there are others too like the Red Light Bandit, the Fast Eddie car, even Daryl's that i think are best left as they are. one car i think that could be better returned back to stock chassis set-up would be the Larry Griffith Dart if the plan is to keep it restored as that car. i liked it when it was all black, but now that it's got the Griffith paint back on it i think it looks weird, Larry didn't race it that way. interestingly though i think the 4-speed Landy car is just fine the way it is even though it's not the way it was when Landy raced it, at least the rear suspension. it still looks "right" where as the Griffith car to me again just looks weird for some reason. one of the things that has bothered me for years concerning the C.O.P.O. Camaro's is that everyone wants to return those cars back to stock and destroy any history that they had as racecars. those cars in my opinion are the most boring things ever in restored stock condition, as racecars though i think they are very interesting. i could be wrong here but i think the collector market and values ruined what was alot of good historical racecars or those that had extensive racing histories. Dave Last edited by davezinn; 09-21-2010 at 03:50 PM.