Ford CJ's and Mopar DP's NHRA is now on the case

[Jeff Lee]

Good article. Once a new AHFS scale is adapted then the CJ & DP teams will have to further reduce the throttle blade angle with the computer controlled TPS.

[Andys dad]

They are going to have a new heads up eliminator for the new cars (only) - with weight breaks depending on induction and cubic inch.

It will be a qualified 16 or 32 car field like Pro-Stock

The question is who do you think they are going to get rid of?

Have a very nice day


LOL


:-) peace

[Chad Rhodes]

Originally Posted by Andys dad

They are going to have a new heads up eliminator for the new cars (only) - with weight breaks depending on induction and cubic inch.

It will be a qualified 16 or 32 car field like Pro-Stock

The question is who do you think they are going to get rid of?

Have a very nice day


LOL


:-) peace

sounds like a great Comp Eliminator class

[Greg Hill]

Not one place in that article was there any thing about getting input from stock and super stock racers to fix this problem. With the prior bad judgment of the tech department letting these cars run in stock and super stock with the bogus hp ratings they have why would anyone think they are going to fix the problem? What happens when Ford and Chrysler change the specs a little for the new model years and give them even more bogus hp numbers?

There are lots of stock and super stock racers that knew how bogus these cars were as soon as they saw the specs and compared them to the older cars. If we knew why didn't NHRA know? Also that BS about not hitting any combination with hp before it ran is total crap. The 403 Olds motor that Al Provost use to run was hit with 90 hp before it ever sat foot on the track. I think it went from 190 to 280. Also almost all the old cars with SAE net hp ratings were re-factored before they ran. Yep the LT1's and LS!'s were bogus as well, but you have to remember Pontiac and GMC were the official cars and trucks for NHRA. That didn't make it right and a lot of racers quit because of those cars.

These cars need to be in their own classes in Stock and need to be re-factored for SS. My God that Ford 352 that's in the guide at 285 for SS has 230cc intake runners with a 1000 cfm throttle body and 11 1/2 to 1 compression.

[Ed Fernandez]

Originally Posted by Greg Hill

Not one place in that article was there any thing about getting input from stock and super stock racers to fix this problem. With the prior bad judgment of the tech department letting these cars run in stock and super stock with the bogus hp ratings they have why would anyone think they are going to fix the problem? What happens when Ford and Chrysler change the specs a little for the new model years and give them even more bogus hp numbers?

There are lots of stock and super stock racers that knew how bogus these cars were as soon as they saw the specs and compared them to the older cars. If we knew why didn't NHRA know? Also that BS about not hitting any combination with hp before it ran is total crap. The 403 Olds motor that Al Provost use to run was hit with 90 hp before it ever sat foot on the track. I think it went from 190 to 280. Also almost all the old cars with SAE net hp ratings were re-factored before they ran. Yep the LT1's and LS!'s were bogus as well, but you have to remember Pontiac and GMC were the official cars and trucks for NHRA. That didn't make it right and a lot of racers quit because of those cars.

These cars need to be in their own classes in Stock and need to be re-factored for SS. My God that Ford 352 that's in the guide at 285 for SS has 230cc intake runners with a 1000 cfm throttle body and 11 1/2 to 1 compression.

Quote by D.Gracia:
“At Reading, Pa., we are going to meet with some of the other people on the (Stock and Super Stock) committee,” Gracia said. “We’re going to brainstorm some of this and try to figure out what direction we will go with this, what makes more sense. The other thing that is very important that folks out there need to understand is not one person in this department can make that decision of what horsepower is going to be used. It has to go through the NHRA Stock and Super Stock committee.”

Greg,maybe you missed this?None the less it seems the S/SS committee is there just for NHRA to use the way they feel to justify any decisions they make.I think the guys really work to get changes but in the end it's the old in one ear out the other with any input they suggest.I just signed a survey circulated by our rep,Kent Hanley, about the new cars.I hope they at least consider the results.I'm not holding my breath though.

[Qwikpony]

We need to remember that NHRA's horsepower comittee needs to be given some respect in the sense that basically...... they were told a HUGE LIE by both Ford and Chrysler about these new cars. It is well known the amount of money that foth Ford and Mopar are putting into NHRA events and etc. So when NHRA asked these manufacturers to give them an HONEST set of power figures ( IN GOOD FAITH), they expected to be told the truth. I can't blame either Ford or Mopar for trying to "one up" the other, but it has come at the expense of too many racers. Ford and Mopar should be ashamed to even think that for a second NHRA and it's sportsman racers are so naive and ignorant as to not know the power potential right away. We are talking about 40+ years of R&D, technology and yes... EFI. The main difference between the "old" LT and LS cars is that they were actually built to be street cars with VIN's and license plates. Now it is up to NHRA to take the necessary action to level the playing field for everyone else while still allowing Ford and Mopar to slug it out in the HP wars. I don't advocate taking HP off of the older combos because many racers have spent countless hours finding the optimum place for the ballast. This could severely hurt the higher horsepower cars on the marginal tracks we routinely race on. I think that a separate class is the best answer at this point. The re-establishment of the EFI classes would be a great step. I was a dealership mechanic for over 10 years, so I know how awesome the EFI tuning parameters are.

[Chad Rhodes]

Originally Posted by Qwikpony

We need to remember that NHRA's horsepower comittee needs to be given some respect in the sense that basically...... they were told a HUGE LIE by both Ford and Chrysler about these new cars. It is well known the amount of money that foth Ford and Mopar are putting into NHRA events and etc. So when NHRA asked these manufacturers to give them an HONEST set of power figures ( IN GOOD FAITH), they expected to be told the truth. I can't blame either Ford or Mopar for trying to "one up" the other, but it has come at the expense of too many racers. Ford and Mopar should be ashamed to even think that for a second NHRA and it's sportsman racers are so naive and ignorant as to not know the power potential right away. We are talking about 40+ years of R&D, technology and yes... EFI. The main difference between the "old" LT and LS cars is that they were actually built to be street cars with VIN's and license plates. Now it is up to NHRA to take the necessary action to level the playing field for everyone else while still allowing Ford and Mopar to slug it out in the HP wars. I don't advocate taking HP off of the older combos because many racers have spent countless hours finding the optimum place for the ballast. This could severely hurt the higher horsepower cars on the marginal tracks we routinely race on. I think that a separate class is the best answer at this point. The re-establishment of the EFI classes would be a great step. I was a dealership mechanic for over 10 years, so I know how awesome the EFI tuning parameters are.

2 issues with this line of thought; 1) any idiot could have done a 10 minute internet search ( or read a brochure) and known that the FR500CJ engine was basically a GT500 motor, and would make much more than 425 hp, the same could be said for the Hemi's after looking at the specs. It just goes to show that no due dilligence was done by NHRA, and that's unacceptable. 2) one of the big differences (which NHRA never took into acount) in the HP factors of the previous EFI cars was the switch from gross to net SAE HP ratings just after the muscle car era in the early 70's. Since the late 80's-early 90's was the begining of the factories' starting to really build muscle cars again, it wasn't until then that this decades old change reared its ugly head. So many combos of the mid-late 70's and early 80's were smog choked dogs that when the factories started to control emissions through EFI and put compression and performance back into them it looked as if they were intentionally under rated.

[GUMP]

Originally Posted by Qwikpony

...So when NHRA asked these manufacturers to give them an HONEST set of power figures ( IN GOOD FAITH), they expected to be told the truth.

Do you really think that the OEM's submitted "HONEST" HP numbers in the "Good Old Days"?

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by Greg Hill

Not one place in that article was there any thing about getting input from stock and super stock racers to fix this problem. With the prior bad judgment of the tech department letting these cars run in stock and super stock with the bogus hp ratings they have why would anyone think they are going to fix the problem? What happens when Ford and Chrysler change the specs a little for the new model years and give them even more bogus hp numbers?

There are lots of stock and super stock racers that knew how bogus these cars were as soon as they saw the specs and compared them to the older cars. If we knew why didn't NHRA know? Also that BS about not hitting any combination with hp before it ran is total crap. The 403 Olds motor that Al Provost use to run was hit with 90 hp before it ever sat foot on the track. I think it went from 190 to 280. Also almost all the old cars with SAE net hp ratings were re-factored before they ran. Yep the LT1's and LS!'s were bogus as well, but you have to remember Pontiac and GMC were the official cars and trucks for NHRA. That didn't make it right and a lot of racers quit because of those cars.

These cars need to be in their own classes in Stock and need to be re-factored for SS. My God that Ford 352 that's in the guide at 285 for SS has 230cc intake runners with a 1000 cfm throttle body and 11 1/2 to 1 compression.

Same deal with Dave Boertmans 71 383 Mopar and Ron Gary's 455 Olds back in 1971. They were moved up one class higher than they were in before they hit the track for the first time and before they ever ran the 1971 Winternationals. Just who are they trying to fool?

[Capri]

How about getting hit with 15HP before the car made pass 1 in Competition ANYWHERE??????????