Why do we continually use the super classe as track testers?

[Michael Beard]

Again, in the second pair of Super Street, the guy got loose at 800' or later. He certainly wasn't just coming off the stop. Any car with any power was going to have the same problem.

That was a problem downtrack. Now, LOOK at the rubber on the starting line.



You've got a high water table, and a great deal of rain leading into the weekend. The water table has to first recede, then you'd have to completely scrape the track, and start prep from scratch. There's no bandaid fix for this situation. That said, you can either 1) know that you are able to deal with it properly and do so, and 2) know that you're not *going* to be able to deal with it, and pull the plug in advance. I knew we were going to have a lot of rain leading into the weekend. That's one of many reasons why I waited until 7pm Thursday night to leave NC. I expected that if they thought they were going to encounter such conditions that they would not be able to overcome, that they would postpone the race. I've now been to two divisional races at Atco 12 years apart where I've won first round and had the race rescheduled to a time where I can come back. For me, it's been a money pit with no chance of any return. But it's even worse to lose cars and hurt drivers.

And AGAIN, this is FAR from an isolated incident in NHRA this year. WHY? What are they doing different that's not working? It's not like they're carrying the "wrong traction compound" barrels around from Phoenix.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by CBS

They were super street cars..heavy....big tires.....the first pair got loose and crashed.........this isn't about throttle stops....its about safety.....and track conditions....

Any of the classes would have been loose.....no doubt about it....don't turn my thread into a throttle stop discussion....and A thru H stocker would have spun .....on that track....

We've seen that before, Rock. You have a PM.

[Rich Biebel]

Alan said we all have to stick together on this subject and he is right. John D. is 100% correct also. The answer is not to point fingers at t-stop category cars or say that T/D and T/S cars are to powerful. We are all racing on the same ractrack and not everyone wants to race a stocker whether it be fast or slow. The sport survived many years ago because of bracket cars and they were folded into NHRA's program. If you think NHRA sportsman racing and race tracks would have survived with just Stock and Super Stock cars participating your dreaming. All the cars racing today need to be accomodated and the track needs to be safe for all types of racing. I love Stockers....I love Super Stockers....I like racing period and race what I can, when I can. I have run 7 second cars and even my street car that ran 16's......I enjoy racing but not when we are worried for our safety or when I see someone else crash and possibly get seriously injured or worse. I have been there many times when racers have lost their lives or been seriously injured. It is terrible for our sport period!

There is an answer to this problem and I don't think the answer is do away with t-stops and timers or limit the horsepower that cars have......The HP is not going away anytime soon. NHRA could ban timers but that would wreak havoc on thousands of racers as they try to adapt.

The answer is to study the problem and determine what is causing a normally perfect racetrack to become so slick that cars can't make a run!

My friend and service manager here at work made one run at Atco in S/G on saturday. His car runs nearly 170mph. He said it was just fine out there.


What happened overnight to make the track unsafe? Cause and effect.......get the right people to look at this and an answer will be found and a corrective action can be determined........All of us just guess and guessing is not good enough when our lives are at stake....

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by Rich Biebel

Alan said we all have to stick together on this subject and he is right. NHRA could ban timers but that would wreak havoc on thousands of racers as they try to adapt.

Rich and others....Im really not trying to be a smart ***** but how did the .90 class drivers drive their .90 cars before all of this electronic stuff become avaliable? Its just one new trick after the other maybe its time to do it another way. True it will take away the high HP engines but it would also make for less expensive, and safer racing. Im not saying the timers and throttle stops caused any of these wrecks but it sure didnt help either. Sorry.....this wasnt meant to be an argument for or against the electronics but food for thought.

[Rich Biebel]

Terry....I won the 1988 SummerNationals in S/G......My car had a 454 that made 600-650 hp with an 850 carb and could run 9.90 at about 137 mph. Dedenbaer electric stop...no timer....

I ran S/ST before that at some events for a few years. My best engine could go 10.40 at less than 130......I sometimes ran it with no stop and just pedaled my way to some round wins........and I also used weight to slow my car up.

I traveled to a lot of events well before that with a well known racer and we ran S/G and at some races could barely run the number.....

His wife nearly won the SummerNationals in S/C one year and we had no delay box and no throttle stop......we just played with a pedal stop bolt.....

I know all about the progression of the categories.....and I am not a big fan of what has happened to these classes. There is no doubt in my mind the big power is part of the problem but big power is very common and easy to buy in a heartbeat.....


My friend here at work has over 1000hp to run S/G and thats dyno numbers...

We need a good solution for everyone and NHRA could step in and try to come up with something.....but you know way better than me how things go with them in charge especailly these days.......

I like running my car flat out....

[X-TECH MAN]

I agree.....I have a friend who won a couple of IHRA Q/R National events about 10 years ago (S/C for you NHRA guys) who could barely run 8.90 at around 153 mph with a 400 small block chev. with iron heads. He might have had $3500 in the engine. He would still be racing today except for a nasty divorce......UGH ! I dont think he ever ran an 8.89 during the whole time but ran everyone under against him and just drove the tree while running flat out. He didnt even have a delay box or any kind of throttle limiting devise so it can be done if the cars are built to run the number and use very little weight and a bolt type throttle stop. Its the big engines and 1000 + HP for high MPH that requires the electronics and if the track is just a little off and not 100% or maybe your tires are on the down side of the usual number of runs you get you can have problems. I was wondering how a 9 inch tired upper class stocker could have run on the track last Sunday? That would have been interesting to know.

[Ed Fernandez]

Terry,it's all about the sponsors.

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by Ed Fernandez

Terry,it's all about the sponsors.

Very true but a lot, most likely, could not drive a .90 without this stuff. Now back to why the track took a "Poop" Sunday????????

[Greg Hill]

The first thing I would want to know is what traction compound they were using.

[Tom Goldman]

[. I was wondering how a 9 inch tired upper class stocker could have run on the track last Sunday? That would have been interesting to know.[/QUOTE] ....I use the upper class Stockers as my
'barometer" for track conditions. ......I saw Ed Bednaz's B/S Nova spin the tires down track when he hit 4th gear on Saturdays run......The track was just marginally acceptable on Saturday while the sun was on it ,when the sun got low it really sucked.......I don't think Stockers would have faired any better on Sunday than the S/ST 'ers did................Something was very wrong with the track because our SuperGas association has raced often at Atco ,sometimes after rain and often when it was cold ,and we never had problems down track like this weekend. ..........We will never know if there was a problem with the traction compound that was used ,or any other circumstances , because to admit there was a problem is to admit liability. .......Some of the Super Street racers that did not crash, but lost never the less, asked about rerunning the couple of pairs that made it down the track, and were told absolutly no. .......