2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes - Page 17

Dgal · 11-03-2010, 08:02 AM

Just to clarify, I am echoing my friend that I help with his car. He runs one of the faster C/SA Firebirds and almost always leaves last. We both view it as a fairness issue and in most cases could hurt him rather than help.

Don

Bobby Fazio · 11-03-2010, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Lee

I'm pretty used to having the faster car (when I have my car running at least), and I'll say once I see a red light in the other lane my concentration is broke and I just let it fly. My thought is "yipee" and I don't really care about a reaction time at that point.
One point that hasn't been brought up about this. If you demand a worst red light rule then you need to block the tree from your opponents view all the way past the red light.
But for the record, I'm adamantly against any such proposal.

Last question - Of those wanting this rule, how many are the same ones that bitch about changing the rules all the time? My guess it's a significant amount.
That being the case (my assumption), what other rule can I propose while your at it?

Jeff I did bring that point up. Please refer to my last post. The faster car wouldn't see the red or the scoreboard light up.

Roger K Fain · 11-03-2010, 11:32 AM

The only way the "worst redlight rule" could work would be to completely obscure the reaction time affect on the outcome of the timed-run competition between two vehicles.
That is; to eliminate the Red light at the base of the tree, eliminate the Win light activated by a false start on the lane marquee at the Finish line, and program the computer to indicate the winner after calculating who crossed the finish line first without going under their dial, and didn't redlight worse than their competitor. The result would be all-out runs by both vehicles with the traditional top-end wha-wha of the throttle and brake-scrubbing
....more fun.

Bobby Zlatkin · 11-03-2010, 12:33 PM

I keep saying I'm not going to post on this any more because I hate being attacked for just expressing my opinion, but I can't remain silent.

Bill D., I agree with you 100%.

Maybe it's not a big deal because it effects a very small number of races, but if you're one of the ones effected, it is a big deal.

Duane Eiskant II · 11-03-2010, 01:09 PM

Maybe its just me but most of the cars out there have serveral dfferent engine combos they can run....Just put a faster combo in the car you have and start leaving second.

Bob Mulry · 11-03-2010, 01:40 PM

Talking about clean trees.............

Both drivers have a "dirty" tree If the difference between the 2 cars is LESS than 1.5 seconds-------

Both drivers have a "clean" tree If the difference between the 2 cars is MORE than 1.5 seconds-------

Just sayin'

bill dedman · 11-03-2010, 04:05 PM

You can't start listing advantages of slower car, faster cars, more aerodynamic cars, better hooking cars (station wagons) or cars with any number of advantages/disadvantages because there's no end to that sort of thing.

The basic truth about the current situation is that it is unfair to the first car to leave, whether it's an A Stocker or a W stocker. IF he redlights, he has just deprived the second car to l;eave of HIS chance to redlight... maybe worse than the other car did.

Unequal red light jeopardy.,

Somebody who supports this arrangement tell me what is fair about this? PLEASE don't talk about clean trees, dirty trees, traction problems of high horsepower cars, or the difficulty of dialing a slow car; there are enough inequities we can't do anything about to go around...
Just stick to the facts about the situation I described in the paragraph I started with "The basic truth..."

I have yet to hear anyone say what is unwoekable about this worse red light system

There are folks like this guy: The only way the "worse redlight rule" could work would be to completely obscure the reaction time affect on the outcome of the timed-run competition between two vehicles."

Why? The race is over before thay will see that information; how does it afffect the leave? We're talking abiut red ight, here.

"That is; to eliminate the Red light at the base of the tree, eliminate the Win light activated by a false start on the lane marquee at the Finish line, and program the computer to indicate the winner after calculating who crossed the finish line first without going under their dial, and didn't redlight worse than their competitor. The result would be all-out runs by both vehicles with the traditional top-end wha-wha of the throttle and brake-scrubbing
....more fun. "

You have taken a simple one-step change in procedure and turned it into an epic.

Why??

bill dedman · 11-03-2010, 04:09 PM

You can't start listing advantages of slower car, faster cars, more aerodynamic cars, better hooking cars (station wagons) or cars with any number of advantages/disadvantages because there's no end to that sort of thing.

The basic truth about the current situation is that it is unfair to the first car to leave, whether it's an A Stocker or a W stocker. IF he redlights, he has just deprived the second car to leave of HIS chance to redlight... maybe worse than the other car did.

Unequal red light jeopardy.,

Can somebody who supports this arrangement tell me what is fair about this? PLEASE don't talk about clean trees, dirty trees, traction problems of high horsepower cars, or the difficulty of dialing a slow car, or "That's the way we' ve always done it.": there are enough inequities we can't do anything about, to go 'round...
Just stick to the facts about the situation I described in the paragraph I started with "The basic truth..."

I have yet to hear anyone say what is unworkable about this worse red light system

Then, there's this guy, who says: "The only way the "worse redlight rule" could work would be to completely obscure the reaction time affect on the outcome of the timed-run competition between two vehicles."

Why? The race is over before thay will see that information; how does it afffect the leave? We're talking about red lights, here.

He then, says,
"That is; to eliminate the Red light at the base of the tree, eliminate the Win light activated by a false start on the lane marquee at the Finish line, and program the computer to indicate the winner after calculating who crossed the finish line first without going under their dial, and didn't redlight worse than their competitor. The result would be all-out runs by both vehicles with the traditional top-end wha-wha of the throttle and brake-scrubbing
....more fun. "

The win light is activated when the computer decides that a worse red light has occurred. Long before the finish line is crossed...
You have taken a simple one-step change in procedure and turned it into an epic.

Why??

Tony Janes · 11-03-2010, 04:26 PM

I do not think the first red light is unfair. It is just part of being the slow car. Probably the most important thing about the double red light is that it happens less than 1% of the time. Also NHRA is not going to do anything about it. The horse is dead.

MLP · 11-03-2010, 04:30 PM

Let me preface this post by saying that I've never made a single lap in NHRA Stock or SS. That being said, I am going to attempt to compete in Stock in 2011 and I'm building a natural AA/S car so any changes of this rule could/will affect me directly.

To *ME*, IMHO this rule is unfair and needs to be fixed. It would be a simple computer software change (I believe anyway?) and would right a long standing wrong. I thought about any possible reason for it to be left as is and can't really come up with one. Nor have I seen any of those that oppose the change offer any reason other than "that's how it's been for years", which in my eyes makes no sense.

I wasn't going to comment as a never-ran but figured I'd throw my two cents out there FWIW.

11-03-2010, 08:02 AM	#161
Dgal Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 169 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes Just to clarify, I am echoing my friend that I help with his car. He runs one of the faster C/SA Firebirds and almost always leaves last. We both view it as a fairness issue and in most cases could hurt him rather than help. Don

11-03-2010, 11:32 AM	#163
Roger K Fain Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Clarksburg, WV Posts: 146 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes The only way the "worst redlight rule" could work would be to completely obscure the reaction time affect on the outcome of the timed-run competition between two vehicles. That is; to eliminate the Red light at the base of the tree, eliminate the Win light activated by a false start on the lane marquee at the Finish line, and program the computer to indicate the winner after calculating who crossed the finish line first without going under their dial, and didn't redlight worse than their competitor. The result would be all-out runs by both vehicles with the traditional top-end wha-wha of the throttle and brake-scrubbing ....more fun.

11-03-2010, 12:33 PM	#164
Bobby Zlatkin Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Mills River, NC Posts: 417 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes I keep saying I'm not going to post on this any more because I hate being attacked for just expressing my opinion, but I can't remain silent. Bill D., I agree with you 100%. Maybe it's not a big deal because it effects a very small number of races, but if you're one of the ones effected, it is a big deal. __________________ Bobby & Norene Zlatkin L/SA

11-03-2010, 01:09 PM	#165
Duane Eiskant II Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Alexandria, Va Posts: 501 Likes: 261 Liked 57 Times in 33 Posts	Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes Maybe its just me but most of the cars out there have serveral dfferent engine combos they can run....Just put a faster combo in the car you have and start leaving second. __________________ Duane Eiskant 1354 Stock/Super Stock

11-03-2010, 01:40 PM	#166
Bob Mulry VIP Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Coarsegold, CA Posts: 1,016 Likes: 57 Liked 320 Times in 102 Posts	Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes Talking about clean trees............. Both drivers have a "dirty" tree If the difference between the 2 cars is LESS than 1.5 seconds------- Both drivers have a "clean" tree If the difference between the 2 cars is MORE than 1.5 seconds------- Just sayin' __________________ Bob Mulry 7516 STK A & M Motorsports

11-03-2010, 04:05 PM	#167
bill dedman VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Conway, AR Posts: 1,739 Likes: 0 Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes You can't start listing advantages of slower car, faster cars, more aerodynamic cars, better hooking cars (station wagons) or cars with any number of advantages/disadvantages because there's no end to that sort of thing. The basic truth about the current situation is that it is unfair to the first car to leave, whether it's an A Stocker or a W stocker. IF he redlights, he has just deprived the second car to l;eave of HIS chance to redlight... maybe worse than the other car did. Unequal red light jeopardy., Somebody who supports this arrangement tell me what is fair about this? PLEASE don't talk about clean trees, dirty trees, traction problems of high horsepower cars, or the difficulty of dialing a slow car; there are enough inequities we can't do anything about to go around... Just stick to the facts about the situation I described in the paragraph I started with "The basic truth..." I have yet to hear anyone say what is unwoekable about this worse red light system There are folks like this guy: The only way the "worse redlight rule" could work would be to completely obscure the reaction time affect on the outcome of the timed-run competition between two vehicles." Why? The race is over before thay will see that information; how does it afffect the leave? We're talking abiut red ight, here. "That is; to eliminate the Red light at the base of the tree, eliminate the Win light activated by a false start on the lane marquee at the Finish line, and program the computer to indicate the winner after calculating who crossed the finish line first without going under their dial, and didn't redlight worse than their competitor. The result would be all-out runs by both vehicles with the traditional top-end wha-wha of the throttle and brake-scrubbing ....more fun. " You have taken a simple one-step change in procedure and turned it into an epic. Why?? __________________ Bill

11-03-2010, 04:09 PM	#168
bill dedman VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Conway, AR Posts: 1,739 Likes: 0 Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes You can't start listing advantages of slower car, faster cars, more aerodynamic cars, better hooking cars (station wagons) or cars with any number of advantages/disadvantages because there's no end to that sort of thing. The basic truth about the current situation is that it is unfair to the first car to leave, whether it's an A Stocker or a W stocker. IF he redlights, he has just deprived the second car to leave of HIS chance to redlight... maybe worse than the other car did. Unequal red light jeopardy., Can somebody who supports this arrangement tell me what is fair about this? PLEASE don't talk about clean trees, dirty trees, traction problems of high horsepower cars, or the difficulty of dialing a slow car, or "That's the way we' ve always done it.": there are enough inequities we can't do anything about, to go 'round... Just stick to the facts about the situation I described in the paragraph I started with "The basic truth..." I have yet to hear anyone say what is unworkable about this worse red light system Then, there's this guy, who says: "The only way the "worse redlight rule" could work would be to completely obscure the reaction time affect on the outcome of the timed-run competition between two vehicles." Why? The race is over before thay will see that information; how does it afffect the leave? We're talking about red lights, here. He then, says, "That is; to eliminate the Red light at the base of the tree, eliminate the Win light activated by a false start on the lane marquee at the Finish line, and program the computer to indicate the winner after calculating who crossed the finish line first without going under their dial, and didn't redlight worse than their competitor. The result would be all-out runs by both vehicles with the traditional top-end wha-wha of the throttle and brake-scrubbing ....more fun. " The win light is activated when the computer decides that a worse red light has occurred. Long before the finish line is crossed... You have taken a simple one-step change in procedure and turned it into an epic. Why?? __________________ Bill Last edited by bill dedman; 11-03-2010 at 04:18 PM.

11-03-2010, 04:26 PM	#169
Tony Janes Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Whittier, Ca Posts: 830 Likes: 94 Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes I do not think the first red light is unfair. It is just part of being the slow car. Probably the most important thing about the double red light is that it happens less than 1% of the time. Also NHRA is not going to do anything about it. The horse is dead. __________________ Tony Janes 7941 STK, SS

11-03-2010, 04:30 PM	#170
MLP Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Michigan Posts: 52 Likes: 40 Liked 23 Times in 7 Posts	Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes Let me preface this post by saying that I've never made a single lap in NHRA Stock or SS. That being said, I am going to attempt to compete in Stock in 2011 and I'm building a natural AA/S car so any changes of this rule could/will affect me directly. To ME, IMHO this rule is unfair and needs to be fixed. It would be a simple computer software change (I believe anyway?) and would right a long standing wrong. I thought about any possible reason for it to be left as is and can't really come up with one. Nor have I seen any of those that oppose the change offer any reason other than "that's how it's been for years", which in my eyes makes no sense. I wasn't going to comment as a never-ran but figured I'd throw my two cents out there FWIW. __________________ Marc Lapoint