Consolidating Classes

Bob Don · 11-24-2010, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Wright

Didn't see consolidating fwd with rwd?

Just kidding.

Ed - Why are you "just kidding"? If you're going to discuss consolidation, combining FWD and RWD should definitely be on the table. (BTW, my vote was to leave it alone).

KingReptile · 11-24-2010, 02:09 AM

Combine sticks and autos I ..

Jeff Lee · 11-24-2010, 02:41 AM

both of the above (stick / auto & spread the weight breaks)

greg fulk · 11-24-2010, 02:55 AM

Just me but I think they should all be 1lb weight classes........

Michael Beard · 11-24-2010, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Didn't see consolidating fwd with rwd?

Didn't think it was worth getting that detailed in a general poll. NHRA FWD classes have already been consolidated amongst themselves with both wider weight breaks and combining sticks and autos. I wouldn't have a problem with combining FWD and RWD classes if there were enough lower classes and there was a way to give them a weight break that put them with an index that made sense. I don't know of a simple way to do that though.

Quote:

Enough with the pushing for changes. Hasn't there been enough done to Stock over the past few years? Seems like some won't be satisfied until S and SS become strictly Bracket 1 and Bracket 2.

1) Nobody's "pushing" anything. It's a question.
2) I would agree there's been *too* many changes, many of which have generated unintended problems themselves.
3) How would having less classes (presumably ending up with more heads up runs) make it more like bracket racing? It's exactly the opposite.

Quote:

How about "both of the above" and stopping at 16lbs/FHP?

Why? (Just curious as to your reasoning)

Quote:

Hey Michael,this poll is for IHRA correct?You do most of your racing for that organization.

No, it's not. It's for benchracing, where you do most of your racing.

Sorry, that one was hanging over the plate.

Still love ya, Ed!

The topic gets brought up for time to time in various forms. I just don't remember seeing a poll covering it. It is the silly season, after all. We need something else to b*tch about.

Gary Smith · 11-24-2010, 09:55 AM

What I can't stand are those who bicker over "soft indexes" or "too many classes" after they've hit their performance plateau. Or they bitch that they need "better valve springs" or "allow roller rockers" blah blah blah. The rest of us in the meantime are just trying to get around the performance curve with what we've got within the exisiting rules and class structure. For those who feel things are "too soft" or need more relaxed rules my advice is go buy a couple "For Sale" signs and move on to another more expensive project like a S/S or Comp car, and leave Stock alone. Just my $.02

AC · 11-24-2010, 10:28 AM

lol

Mike Carr · 11-24-2010, 12:42 PM

If FWD cars were to be absorbed into RWD classes, you wouldn't be able to do it stricltly on a weight break basis, for the following reason.

-AF/S, 13.00-15.99 pound weight break. 13.85 Index, 12.95 Nat'l Record.
13 pounds is K/SA, with an Index of 12.65
-BF/S 16.00-17.49 pound weight break. 14.65 Index, 13.67 run at Indy
16 pounds is P/SA, with an Index of 13.45
-CF/S 17.49-18.99 pound weight break. 15.15 Index, 14.17 Nat'l Record
17.49 pounds falls into Q/SA, with an Index of 13.80
-DF/S 19.00-24.99 pound weight break. Index 15.60. 14.66 at Indy 2009
19 pounds is T/SA, with an Index of 14.40
-EF/S 25.00-more pound weight break. 17.45 Index, best runs in the 16.30's
W/S is the lowest class, 24 pound weight break, 16.65 Index

With the exception of EF/S, not one FWD record is even close to the corresponding RWD weight class Index. IF there were consolidated, I would be in favor of adding FWD cars into RWD classes with similar Indexes. So DF/S would be added into V/SA instead of T, and so on with the other classes.

Adjusting weight breaks for all classes (either .75 or 1 pound classes) would be easiest. Not sure how some classes would work where the stick and auto are rated differently, then NHRA would have to get into weight breaks for the autos (or sticks, in some classes), and would be a bih hassle. IF 1 pound classes were made, I'd think a rule of one class only should be written, so a car wouldn't have to try and adjust 800 pounds or more, in the upper classes, to make the currrently-legal three class rule. Natural B/SA (8.50) can run A (8.00) and C (9.00). If the new classes were, say:

A/S - 7.00
B/S - 8.00
C/S - 9.00 etc etc
Then a car could only run it's natural class, and eliminate the need for removing/adding rediculous amounts of weight to change classes. Same with Super Stock as well.

Just my opinions. Personally, I'd prefer it be left alone for a while, and if I HAD to vote, I would go with the altered (3/4 to 1 pound) weight breaks.

X-TECH MAN · 11-24-2010, 12:54 PM

Stick and automatics should be rated the same. Its the same friggin' engine.

Ed Wright · 11-24-2010, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by X-TECH MAN

Stick and automatics should be rated the same. Its the same friggin' engine.

I agree.

View Poll Results: Opinions on consolidating classes
Combine Sticks and Automatics	33	14.73%
Spread Weight Breaks (i.e., .5 for upper classes, .75 for some, then to 1.00 lb breaks)	22	9.82%
Both of the above	36	16.07%
LEAVE IT ALONE!	133	59.38%
Voters: 224. You may not vote on this poll

11-24-2010, 02:09 AM	#2
KingReptile Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 257 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Consolidating Classes Combine sticks and autos I .. Last edited by KingReptile; 11-24-2010 at 02:09 AM. Reason: mispelling

11-24-2010, 02:41 AM	#3
Jeff Lee VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Anthem, Arizona Posts: 2,766 Likes: 0 Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Consolidating Classes both of the above (stick / auto & spread the weight breaks) __________________ Jeff Lee 7494 D/S '70 AMX

11-24-2010, 02:55 AM	#4
greg fulk VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: jackson Posts: 1,165 Likes: 0 Liked 5 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Consolidating Classes Just me but I think they should all be 1lb weight classes........ __________________ Greg Fulk 308 308X P/SA "ALL AMERICAN"

11-24-2010, 09:55 AM	#6
Gary Smith Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 820 Likes: 9 Liked 132 Times in 30 Posts	Re: Consolidating Classes What I can't stand are those who bicker over "soft indexes" or "too many classes" after they've hit their performance plateau. Or they bitch that they need "better valve springs" or "allow roller rockers" blah blah blah. The rest of us in the meantime are just trying to get around the performance curve with what we've got within the exisiting rules and class structure. For those who feel things are "too soft" or need more relaxed rules my advice is go buy a couple "For Sale" signs and move on to another more expensive project like a S/S or Comp car, and leave Stock alone. Just my $.02 __________________ Gary Smith "another broke racer spectating"

11-24-2010, 10:28 AM	#7
AC Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Long Island NY Posts: 170 Likes: 29 Liked 66 Times in 23 Posts	Re: Consolidating Classes lol Attached Thumbnails

11-24-2010, 12:42 PM	#8
Mike Carr VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Enon Valley PA Posts: 1,650 Likes: 234 Liked 83 Times in 37 Posts	Re: Consolidating Classes If FWD cars were to be absorbed into RWD classes, you wouldn't be able to do it stricltly on a weight break basis, for the following reason. -AF/S, 13.00-15.99 pound weight break. 13.85 Index, 12.95 Nat'l Record. 13 pounds is K/SA, with an Index of 12.65 -BF/S 16.00-17.49 pound weight break. 14.65 Index, 13.67 run at Indy 16 pounds is P/SA, with an Index of 13.45 -CF/S 17.49-18.99 pound weight break. 15.15 Index, 14.17 Nat'l Record 17.49 pounds falls into Q/SA, with an Index of 13.80 -DF/S 19.00-24.99 pound weight break. Index 15.60. 14.66 at Indy 2009 19 pounds is T/SA, with an Index of 14.40 -EF/S 25.00-more pound weight break. 17.45 Index, best runs in the 16.30's W/S is the lowest class, 24 pound weight break, 16.65 Index With the exception of EF/S, not one FWD record is even close to the corresponding RWD weight class Index. IF there were consolidated, I would be in favor of adding FWD cars into RWD classes with similar Indexes. So DF/S would be added into V/SA instead of T, and so on with the other classes. Adjusting weight breaks for all classes (either .75 or 1 pound classes) would be easiest. Not sure how some classes would work where the stick and auto are rated differently, then NHRA would have to get into weight breaks for the autos (or sticks, in some classes), and would be a bih hassle. IF 1 pound classes were made, I'd think a rule of one class only should be written, so a car wouldn't have to try and adjust 800 pounds or more, in the upper classes, to make the currrently-legal three class rule. Natural B/SA (8.50) can run A (8.00) and C (9.00). If the new classes were, say: A/S - 7.00 B/S - 8.00 C/S - 9.00 etc etc Then a car could only run it's natural class, and eliminate the need for removing/adding rediculous amounts of weight to change classes. Same with Super Stock as well. Just my opinions. Personally, I'd prefer it be left alone for a while, and if I HAD to vote, I would go with the altered (3/4 to 1 pound) weight breaks. __________________ Mike Carr, Tri-State S/SS Association President Looking for 2015 S/SS Race Sponsors Contact me if interested buffdaddy_1302@hotmail.com (724) 510-5912

11-24-2010, 12:54 PM	#9
X-TECH MAN Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Lake Placid, Florida Posts: 3,203 Likes: 1,047 Liked 235 Times in 110 Posts	Re: Consolidating Classes Stick and automatics should be rated the same. Its the same friggin' engine.