New AHFS 2011

Alan Roehrich · 12-09-2010, 11:40 AM

RJ,
Just because the factories and NHRA did something wrong to us, that doesn't mean we have to sink to their level. That's the same reasoning some people use to justify the new cars.

How many times have you heard "well, GM had those under rated LT-1 cars, and then they got the LT-1 approved in the 98 Firebird, so we should get to screw the GM guys"? Or "payback is a beeyotch, you GM guys got over on us, so now we're going to get over on you"?

Do we REALLY want all of class racing to sink to THAT level? I don't.

We race an old school 69 Camaro in A/SA and AA/SA, so we have as much to lose to the new cars as anyone. But I wouldn't think it was fair if our combination got hit twice in the same weekend, so I'm not going to say it would be fair to anyone else, just because they race a new car. I can't bring myself to sink to that level.

Besides, let's be honest here. The AHFS is meaningless when it comes to the new factory race cars. All the factories have to do is change one or two blueprint specs every year, and they have a whole new combination. They don't even have to actually build cars anymore, they just have to put parts in the catalog and sell them. It's a new combination every year at the stroke of a pen. Anytime they get hit too hard, just get out the old pen and the catalog, and call NHRA.

Jeff Teuton · 12-09-2010, 12:04 PM

RJ, you are off your pills again.

Andys dad · 12-09-2010, 12:18 PM

How far underrated is a 425hp 427 '69 camaro?

200 - I know a few make more than 625.

Lots of combos are underated they have been for years.

If you can not make more than a combo is rated you will not race it.

Come on you all know the factor is about 1.3 to 1.6 times more than the NHRA rating let alone the factory rating. (depending on how far under you can go)

:-) peace

Chad Rhodes · 12-09-2010, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andys dad

How far underrated is a 425hp 427 '69 camaro?

200 - I know a few make more than 625.

Lots of combos are underated they have been for years.

If you can not make more than a combo is rated you will not race it.

Come on you all know the factor is about 1.3 to 1.6 times more than the NHRA rating let alone the factory rating. (depending on how far under you can go)

:-) peace

or 2.5-3 for the new factory cars

MikeFicacci · 12-09-2010, 12:43 PM

Are you trying to compare the 450 rated 12.5:1 Viper engine to the horsepower rating of a 427/425? The most recent Viper was rated at 600 horsepower and thats with 10.2:1 compression, a smaller cam, and a smaller intake. Not three days ago someone made the comment of how bad the 6.4 Hemi was because it was 2 points down from the 6.1. Using your factor.....1.3 x 600 = 780. 1.6 x 600 = 960 and thats with the factory specs. 800-900 horsepower is not out of the question with these motors with a good engine builder and tuner. People have gotten close with the factory specs.

I'm all on board with the Challengers because at this point its clear they are not going anywhere but its just funny how some people are actually trying to justify these horsepower ratings. A Challenger with a Viper motor on steriods? Awesome!! It's definitely going to be cool to see these cars going down the track in Stock as short lived as it may be. Just personally don't see the fun of running a combo grossly under-factored. No one is looking at these guys, (besides each other), and saying "wow, thats awesome, you guys did a good job."

No matter what side of the fence you stand on, you have to look at these numbers and just shake your head and laugh. At the end of the day, that's all anyone on the starting line is doing when they go down the track.

Jeff Teuton · 12-09-2010, 12:47 PM

Chad, didn't you get 10 or 20 taken off your combo? What a system. If I had gotten 20 off my old car, I would still have it. I think you and the Sammy got the benefit of that.

Andys dad · 12-09-2010, 12:55 PM

Not too long ago we were talking about the first stocker in the 9s now the question is -

Will it be a blown CJ or V10 Challenger to be the first stocker in the 8s?

The snake wars will be interesting a Viper against a Cobra.

Sorry I could not help my self Jeff.

I think they will be in A/FX next year @ 7.0 lbs.

9.17 and 142 at Milan just kidding/guessing/hoping

I am bored at work today

:-) peace

Chad Rhodes · 12-09-2010, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Teuton

Chad, didn't you get 10 or 20 taken off your combo? What a system. If I had gotten 20 off my old car, I would still have it. I think you and the Sammy got the benefit of that.

Jeff, our car is a 435, not the 400. It was a 400 till 2008. I have written several letters to get HP off the 435 to no avail. The low rise 3x2 intake is nowhere near as good as the 372 intake on the 425, and the extra CFM don't make up for it.

I also wish we would have kept the 400 stuff, its a better combo for sure now. Look at Dave Casey ( not sure if he is the 400 but I'm pretty sure it is).

Jeff Teuton · 12-09-2010, 03:38 PM

RJ and all my other buddies, there might be help on the way. Keep the faith, and keep the beverages chilled till we see what happens. Trust me.

Frank Bialas · 12-12-2010, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chad Rhodes

Jeff, our car is a 435, not the 400. It was a 400 till 2008. I have written several letters to get HP off the 435 to no avail. The low rise 3x2 intake is nowhere near as good as the 372 intake on the 425, and the extra CFM don't make up for it.

I also wish we would have kept the 400 stuff, its a better combo for sure now. Look at Dave Casey ( not sure if he is the 400 but I'm pretty sure it is).

Jeff/Chad NHRA DOES-NOT giveaway 10/20 HP to anybody, I know every-time it's been +6 or just enough so the 440-6pak COULD-NOT PLAY WITH THE 396/375 AND OR THE TRUE BLUE 428's. Must have been a bad boy this year again, cause no xmas gift from NHRA again!!! Your right as intimidating/nasty the carbs and hole in the hood look it's not the best combo, and the really bad thing about running MOPAR is NO after-market heads,intakes, or carbs, OH AND NO ALUMINUM STUFF either!!! The 417 factor stays maybe because there are only a handful of us running the BIG-B-BODY!!! And even the better factored E-BODIES really struggle to compete and I believe they stayed @-405HP too bad that they couldn't tighten us up a bit, so the OLD stuff/guys could still play. THE END MAY BE CLOSER THAN WE THINK - - - - ONE NEVER KNOWS!!!!

Jeff 2010#14DP is still on back burner - all the way back burner, long story hope we can get a jump on it over the winter.

12-09-2010, 12:04 PM	#2
Jeff Teuton VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Houma, LA Posts: 2,717 Likes: 2 Liked 325 Times in 50 Posts	Re: New AHFS 2011 RJ, you are off your pills again. __________________ Jeff Teuton 4022 STK

12-09-2010, 12:18 PM	#3
Andys dad VIP Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Arcadia, Ca Posts: 1,571 Likes: 48 Liked 175 Times in 78 Posts	Re: New AHFS 2011 How far underrated is a 425hp 427 '69 camaro? 200 - I know a few make more than 625. Lots of combos are underated they have been for years. If you can not make more than a combo is rated you will not race it. Come on you all know the factor is about 1.3 to 1.6 times more than the NHRA rating let alone the factory rating. (depending on how far under you can go) :-) peace __________________ time is our most precious resource, you can always make more money but you can never make more time spend your time wisely with the ones you love - Ron Durham

12-09-2010, 12:43 PM	#5
MikeFicacci Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 242 Likes: 1 Liked 19 Times in 2 Posts	Re: New AHFS 2011 Are you trying to compare the 450 rated 12.5:1 Viper engine to the horsepower rating of a 427/425? The most recent Viper was rated at 600 horsepower and thats with 10.2:1 compression, a smaller cam, and a smaller intake. Not three days ago someone made the comment of how bad the 6.4 Hemi was because it was 2 points down from the 6.1. Using your factor.....1.3 x 600 = 780. 1.6 x 600 = 960 and thats with the factory specs. 800-900 horsepower is not out of the question with these motors with a good engine builder and tuner. People have gotten close with the factory specs. I'm all on board with the Challengers because at this point its clear they are not going anywhere but its just funny how some people are actually trying to justify these horsepower ratings. A Challenger with a Viper motor on steriods? Awesome!! It's definitely going to be cool to see these cars going down the track in Stock as short lived as it may be. Just personally don't see the fun of running a combo grossly under-factored. No one is looking at these guys, (besides each other), and saying "wow, thats awesome, you guys did a good job." No matter what side of the fence you stand on, you have to look at these numbers and just shake your head and laugh. At the end of the day, that's all anyone on the starting line is doing when they go down the track. __________________ Mike Ficacci Stk 1010

12-09-2010, 12:47 PM	#6
Jeff Teuton VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Houma, LA Posts: 2,717 Likes: 2 Liked 325 Times in 50 Posts	Re: New AHFS 2011 Chad, didn't you get 10 or 20 taken off your combo? What a system. If I had gotten 20 off my old car, I would still have it. I think you and the Sammy got the benefit of that. __________________ Jeff Teuton 4022 STK

12-09-2010, 12:55 PM	#7
Andys dad VIP Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Arcadia, Ca Posts: 1,571 Likes: 48 Liked 175 Times in 78 Posts	Re: New AHFS 2011 Not too long ago we were talking about the first stocker in the 9s now the question is - Will it be a blown CJ or V10 Challenger to be the first stocker in the 8s? The snake wars will be interesting a Viper against a Cobra. Sorry I could not help my self Jeff. I think they will be in A/FX next year @ 7.0 lbs. 9.17 and 142 at Milan just kidding/guessing/hoping I am bored at work today :-) peace __________________ time is our most precious resource, you can always make more money but you can never make more time spend your time wisely with the ones you love - Ron Durham

12-09-2010, 11:40 AM	#1
Alan Roehrich Veteran Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Murfreesboro TN Posts: 5,136 Likes: 1,616 Liked 1,924 Times in 432 Posts	Re: New AHFS 2011 RJ, Just because the factories and NHRA did something wrong to us, that doesn't mean we have to sink to their level. That's the same reasoning some people use to justify the new cars. How many times have you heard "well, GM had those under rated LT-1 cars, and then they got the LT-1 approved in the 98 Firebird, so we should get to screw the GM guys"? Or "payback is a beeyotch, you GM guys got over on us, so now we're going to get over on you"? Do we REALLY want all of class racing to sink to THAT level? I don't. We race an old school 69 Camaro in A/SA and AA/SA, so we have as much to lose to the new cars as anyone. But I wouldn't think it was fair if our combination got hit twice in the same weekend, so I'm not going to say it would be fair to anyone else, just because they race a new car. I can't bring myself to sink to that level. Besides, let's be honest here. The AHFS is meaningless when it comes to the new factory race cars. All the factories have to do is change one or two blueprint specs every year, and they have a whole new combination. They don't even have to actually build cars anymore, they just have to put parts in the catalog and sell them. It's a new combination every year at the stroke of a pen. Anytime they get hit too hard, just get out the old pen and the catalog, and call NHRA. __________________ Alan Roehrich 212A G/S

12-09-2010, 03:38 PM	#9
Jeff Teuton VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Houma, LA Posts: 2,717 Likes: 2 Liked 325 Times in 50 Posts	Re: New AHFS 2011 RJ and all my other buddies, there might be help on the way. Keep the faith, and keep the beverages chilled till we see what happens. Trust me. __________________ Jeff Teuton 4022 STK