How do you get (N) racers over to the (I) side

[Trevor Weiss]

Just out of couriosity how would it kill car counts when it has ben said that more people go to races that have "Class"? I personally would rather race heads up than bracket race.

[Ed Fernandez]

Trevor,you're idea falls into the realm of Comp Eliminator.The potential for the big $$$ guys to run wild will kill the eliminator.
Myron,If the cars counts stay high the crate guys could fall in line with changes to the
engine to make them N/Ihra legal.
Obviously the car counts would be dictated by the new world common denominator,
$$$$,in the form of decent payouts.

[Myron Piatek]

Ed,

Admitedly, Crate Motors are easier to find parts for and to work on, but with their own blueprint specs like "regular" Stockers. That is what attracted many racers to them, including myself. Over time, it might be possible to incorporate those combos among the regular Stock classes, but complaints will remain. As for the suggestion of CM racers eventually converting to an NHRA style Stocker engine, there are probably many that wouldn't or couldn't. Less expense and that I grew up working on Holley carbs with too little experience with Carters attracted me to IHRA Crate Motors. I figured I could be competitive even on a tighter budget than most. Original OEM parts are getting harder to find and with all the superceded and aftermarket parts now allowed in NHRA, many Stock combos are similar to Crate Motors anyway, especially the new cars. Things aren't getting any cheaper. So I think that the economics of converting wouldn't make it feasible because of the reasons many racers built a CM to begin with and car counts would be less than if crate combos continued to be allowed. It could also be a selling point again with newer engines and parts that the factory actually sells. Most racers can't afford a factory Drag Pak Challenger or Mustang. But more could afford an over-the-counter engine and/or parts. It couldn't hurt to keep the door open for the factories if the economy gets better.

Think of Crate Motor combos as the Stock version of SS/GT. Lots of the original Drag Pak Challenger F.I. 5.9 Magnum engines are being used in SS/GT with Jeff Teuton's Duster being the first. That is basically a crate motor!

[Wade Mahaffey]

I may be wrong about this but, I thought IHRA brought in more entry level classes (pure stock, stock GT, Crate motor) to provide more car count....I saw this as an effort to keep racing alive by allowing a less cost approach to the sport. I don't think they would have bothered if there were 100 natural stockers in the lanes. If they had not done that there would be 10 cars instead of 30 cars. I'm sure they would consider reducing the stock classes with a little more support from the natural guys.

Wade Mahaffey

[Ed Fernandez]

Originally Posted by Myron Piatek

Ed,

Admitedly, Crate Motors are easier to find parts for and to work on, but with their own blueprint specs like "regular" Stockers. That is what attracted many racers to them, including myself. Over time, it might be possible to incorporate those combos among the regular Stock classes, but complaints will remain. As for the suggestion of CM racers eventually converting to an NHRA style Stocker engine, there are probably many that wouldn't or couldn't. Less expense and that I grew up working on Holley carbs with too little experience with Carters attracted me to IHRA Crate Motors. I figured I could be competitive even on a tighter budget than most. Original OEM parts are getting harder to find and with all the superceded and aftermarket parts now allowed in NHRA, many Stock combos are similar to Crate Motors anyway, especially the new cars. Things aren't getting any cheaper. So I think that the economics of converting wouldn't make it feasible because of the reasons many racers built a CM to begin with and car counts would be less than if crate combos continued to be allowed. It could also be a selling point again with newer engines and parts that the factory actually sells. Most racers can't afford a factory Drag Pak Challenger or Mustang. But more could afford an over-the-counter engine and/or parts. It couldn't hurt to keep the door open for the factories if the economy gets better.

Think of Crate Motor combos as the Stock version of SS/GT. Lots of the original Drag Pak Challenger F.I. 5.9 Magnum engines are being used in SS/GT with Jeff Teuton's Duster being the first. That is basically a crate motor!

Thanks for the civil reply Myron.

[Myron Piatek]

Originally Posted by Wade Mahaffey

I may be wrong about this but, I thought IHRA brought in more entry level classes (pure stock, stock GT, Crate motor) to provide more car count....I saw this as an effort to keep racing alive by allowing a less cost approach to the sport. I don't think they would have bothered if there were 100 natural stockers in the lanes. If they had not done that there would be 10 cars instead of 30 cars. I'm sure they would consider reducing the stock classes with a little more support from the natural guys.

Wade Mahaffey

Exactly! More people are racing because it was more economical to get involved. Car counts in IHRA have to be brought up first with support from more NHRA racers before anyone should even considering any class reduction/consolidation in any form. IHRA has made it more economical for everyone, including regular Stockers, with double-headers, qualifying for a shot at a World Championship without traveling all over the country and no surprise enhancements. Sure, payouts are less across the board. But as Michael Beard pointed out, a business can't afford to put out more money or attract contingency sponsors if racers don't show up! Either way, for less entry, travel expenses and time off from work, one can get a weekend of racing that's as competitive as anywhere else without being "filler" for the Pros! Sportsman normally have all day uninterupted, barring weather and sportsman-only oildowns. Only semi's and finals are mixed in with the Pro show and that's in front of a crowd and on TV! Don't know how many times that's been mentioned.

Ed,
Thanks. Glad to have the opportunity.

[Michael Beard]

Although a bracket racer, I think it's worth pointing this out... here's a guy with a great attitude: http://www.ihra.com/article/7232.html

[danny waters sr]

Originally Posted by Myron Piatek

Ed,

Admitedly, Crate Motors are easier to find parts for and to work on, but with their own blueprint specs like "regular" Stockers. That is what attracted many racers to them, including myself. Over time, it might be possible to incorporate those combos among the regular Stock classes, but complaints will remain. As for the suggestion of CM racers eventually converting to an NHRA style Stocker engine, there are probably many that wouldn't or couldn't. Less expense and that I grew up working on Holley carbs with too little experience with Carters attracted me to IHRA Crate Motors. I figured I could be competitive even on a tighter budget than most. Original OEM parts are getting harder to find and with all the superceded and aftermarket parts now allowed in NHRA, many Stock combos are similar to Crate Motors anyway, especially the new cars. Things aren't getting any cheaper. So I think that the economics of converting wouldn't make it feasible because of the reasons many racers built a CM to begin with and car counts would be less than if crate combos continued to be allowed. It could also be a selling point again with newer engines and parts that the factory actually sells. Most racers can't afford a factory Drag Pak Challenger or Mustang. But more could afford an over-the-counter engine and/or parts. It couldn't hurt to keep the door open for the factories if the economy gets better.

Think of Crate Motor combos as the Stock version of SS/GT. Lots of the original Drag Pak Challenger F.I. 5.9 Magnum engines are being used in SS/GT with Jeff Teuton's Duster being the first. That is basically a crate motor!

Myron ,speaking of crate motors ,i just got an e-maill on GM and Ford crate motor hp reductions....GM= 350/300-305 reduced to 300 hp now.....350/330-340 reduced to 330 hp now....350/385-395 reduced to 390 hp now.........Ford= 302/320-300 (Y 302 head 285 hp) and (X303 head 295 hp) ............392/430 = ( X head 390 hp ) and ( Z head 410 hp )...Just thought i would put this out there if anyone was interested or running these engines.......

[Myron Piatek]

Originally Posted by danny waters sr

Myron ,speaking of crate motors ,i just got an e-maill on GM and Ford crate motor hp reductions....GM= 350/300-305 reduced to 300 hp now.....350/330-340 reduced to 330 hp now....350/385-395 reduced to 390 hp now.........Ford= 302/320-300 (Y 302 head 285 hp) and (X303 head 295 hp) ............392/430 = ( X head 390 hp ) and ( Z head 410 hp )...Just thought i would put this out there if anyone was interested or running these engines.......

Hmmm. I wish I remembered who was running what combo and how fast. Don't know who may have "petitioned" for some of the changes, but I know somebody in NC who will be absolutely overjoyed and can't wait to debut one of the "little" bowties in his car.

[Dwight Southerland]

Originally Posted by Myron Piatek

It could also be a selling point again with newer engines and parts that the factory actually sells. Most racers can't afford a factory Drag Pak Challenger or Mustang. But more could afford an over-the-counter engine and/or parts. It couldn't hurt to keep the door open for the factories if the economy gets better.

Think of Crate Motor combos as the Stock version of SS/GT. Lots of the original Drag Pak Challenger F.I. 5.9 Magnum engines are being used in SS/GT with Jeff Teuton's Duster being the first. That is basically a crate motor!

I agree. Since there are "blueprint" specs for all these motors, there is no difference in my way of thinking than traditional stock classes, especially in light of "liberalized" specs for some traditional combinations and the acceptance of aftermarket heads for many. It also makes sense to me for IHRA to combine Stock GT classes and CM classes - there are too many similarities.