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View Poll Results: Red light poll (Revised)
First car to foul loses 145 64.16%
Worse foul loses 81 35.84%
Voters: 226. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-05-2011, 11:36 PM   #1
bill dedman
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Default Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)

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Originally Posted by johnny shot View Post
I can tell you the exact valid argument. Prior to dial in racing, stock and superstock ran off National Records. Then a group of complaining racers who were not winning campaigned to allow a new rule called "dial under", to level the playing field and make it fair for everyone.

But that was not fair enough for some. Change the rules again so you THINK you can win.

You want to get rid of the breakout inequity? I agree. Lets change that rule. Change it back to running of the national records with no break out. Problem solved.

I don't have a rule book in front of me, so correct me if I'm wrong, but a red light or lane crossing is grounds for disqualification. Going under the dial is not, it's simply a matter of doing the math.
Johnny, how much of this thread have you read?

Nobody wants to change anything about breakout rules; this whole thing is just a discussion about why should the second car to leave get a free ride to the next round (or, Winners' Circle) just because his opponent left first and red lighted. Some folks on here think that the second car to leave should get HIS chance to red light, too. They feel that there's no reason why he shouldn't face HIS red light jeopardy, too, as a matter of fairness.

Can you think of any good reason why he shouldn't? I can't...

The fact is, that the rule that creates this lopsided scenario came about in 1963 (!) when the electronic capability of correcting it didn't exist, yet, but it does, now... so, saying "It's always been that way" isn't a valid reason.
Way past time to fix it...
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Old 03-05-2011, 11:44 PM   #2
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Default Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)

You want to get rid of the breakout inequity? I agree. Lets change that rule. Change it back to running of the national records with no break out. Problem solved.

Sounds like a good idea.But then S/SS would turn into a playground for guys with deeeeeeeep pockets.Think about it.
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Old 03-05-2011, 11:53 PM   #3
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You want to get rid of the breakout inequity? I agree. Lets change that rule. Change it back to running of the national records with no break out. Problem solved.

Sounds like a good idea.But then S/SS would turn into a playground for guys with deeeeeeeep pockets.Think about it.
I have deeeeep pockets. I want the rule changed to suite my agenda. Just like everyone else. Anybody who lobbies for fair for all is an absolute saint or a liar. I've never met a saint. Liars lobby for their perceived advantage under the disguise of fairness. Met them...
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Old 03-06-2011, 12:18 AM   #4
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I have deeeeep pockets. I want the rule changed to suite my agenda. Just like everyone else. Anybody who lobbies for fair for all is an absolute saint or a liar. I've never met a saint. Liars lobby for their perceived advantage under the disguise of fairness. Met them...
Is that so.Maybe you can reach in one of those deep pockets and throw a one year sponsorship to an old on the balls of his ***** racer so I can take my low buck operation on the road this year.
Me and my fellow low buck group get great a great satisfaction out of knocking off a big dollar guy now and then.
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Old 03-06-2011, 03:10 AM   #5
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Default Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)

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. Anybody who lobbies for fair for all is an absolute saint or a liar. I've never met a saint. Liars lobby for their perceived advantage under the disguise of fairness. Met them...
Tell me your conception of the "perceived advantage under the disguise of fairness" that would exist under a new red light system wherein BOTH cars had an equal chance to red light, every time at bat. They don't now, you know... IF the first to leave bulbs, the second car suffers NO red light jeopardy like the first car did, and gets a free ride to the next round.

Is THAT not a "perceived advantage?" No, it's a REAL advantage, and needs to be eliminated. Drag racing has enough problems with fairness (AHFS; HP Factors:Politics: Shall I go on???) and this is one that's been around for 48 years and is an easy fix, now.

Let's fix it!
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Old 03-05-2011, 11:49 PM   #6
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Default Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)

I've read it all. You must not have because I've already explained the redlight part several pages ago. Then, while further reading the whole thread, the breakout rule was questioned and asked for a re-write. So I responded to that. Now, I'm responding to you. See? Now please read what I wrote on the redlight issue and you will see my thoughts on it.

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Originally Posted by bill dedman View Post
Johnny, how much of this thread have you read?

Nobody wants to change anything about breakout rules; this whole thing is just a discussion about why should the second car to leave get a free ride to the next round (or, Winners' Circle) just because his opponent left first and red lighted. Some folks on here think that the second car to leave should get HIS chance to red light, too. They feel that there's no reason why he shouldn't face HIS red light jeopardy, too, as a matter of fairness.

Can you think of any good reason why he shouldn't? I can't...

The fact is, that the rule that creates this lopsided scenario came about in 1963 (!) when the electronic capability of correcting it didn't exist, yet, but it does, now... so, saying "It's always been that way" isn't a valid reason.
Way past time to fix it...
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Old 03-05-2011, 11:58 PM   #7
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Default Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)

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Johnny, how much of this thread have you read?

Nobody wants to change anything about breakout rules; .
Read my post # 13. (red lights)
Bunkster Post # 22 (change breakout rules)
YOUR post # 23 (you agreeing with Bunkster on breakout rule revision)

Once one vehicle breaks out, the other vehicle ought to be immune?

Bunkster: "The first to foul, and the first to breakout are always the loser." Seems like this would be a consistent application of the notion of "first".
Bill Dedman: "wish I'd said that"

And you just told me nobody wants to change breakout rules. Guess you're no saint.

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Old 03-06-2011, 02:51 AM   #8
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Default Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)

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Read my post # 13. (red lights)
Bunkster Post # 22 (change breakout rules)
YOUR post # 23 (you agreeing with Bunkster on breakout rule revision)

Once one vehicle breaks out, the other vehicle ought to be immune?

Bunkster: "The first to foul, and the first to breakout are always the loser." Seems like this would be a consistent application of the notion of "first".
Bill Dedman: "wish I'd said that"

And you just told me nobody wants to change breakout rules. Guess you're no saint.
Here's you post #13 on red lights: "So dumb to even continue this but I can't help it.
It's so simple. Once the first car fouls, THERE IS NO RACE from that point on. The red lighter has been ELIMINATED and the race is OVER. What the second driver does after that is of no consequence because the round is already over. Unless foul worse than a red light occurs. It's a time trial, test n tune pass, a chance to win the Perfectly Strange award, if they still have that, wave to you friends whatever.
So take that last beating you dead horse......"

All that did was tell us that you have NO UNDERSTANDING that with the new red light rule, THE RACE WON'T BE OVER UNTIL BOTH CARS HAVE EACH HAD THEIR CHANCE TO RED LIGHT. That's the whole point of this discussion. If you don't understand that, at this point, I'd suggest you enroll in some remedial reading comprehension classes.

RE: Bunkster's post #22: He said, "The enthusiasm for "first" in the case of the starting line, I presume this would apply to the finish line as well?

Once one vehicle breaks out, the other vehicle ought to be immune?

"The first to foul, and the first to breakout are always the loser." Seems like this would be a consistent application of the notion of "first".

He knows that nobody will go along with a stupid rule like that, so he's comparing it with the OTHER stupid rule, the current red light rule.

Since you didn't "get that" (the sarcasm) I can see why you thought what you thought.

Try to keep up...

My agreeement with his sarcasm in post 22: "Excellent logic, Mr. Bunkster. I can't imagine a valid argument against what you have suggested.

Wish I'd said that...

The only instance a "first red light" makes any sense is in a heads-up race. DUH..."

See, I trashed both the red light AND the first breakout in the last sentence...

Nobody DOES want to change the breakout rules. Ask anyone... I sure don't.
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