Another low car count?

[THE LEGEND]

Charlie
I reread your posts.
Things were very different 18 years ago. I think you r bucket of water has holes in it. You got guys out here going to Saturday night bracket races with 50k dragsters

[Rollins_2241]

The Super classes fill up because they attract a wide variety of cars, a lot like Stock used to 30 years ago. Today, Stock and Super Stock are very narrow classes focused on a few high dollar purpose built cars which mostly can't cross over from other types of racing. And I'm not even talking about the new "checkbook #1 qualifier" classes from Ford and Dodge.

Interestingly, about 20% of the 10-11-12 Index cars at the new Division 2 format are crossover Stockers, and the word I've heard in the pits is that the Stock diehards find it surprisingly fun with a lot less hassle. Here's my latest idea you probably don't want to hear to get more crossover racers at Lucas Oil Div. 2 events:

Outlaw Super Comp: 7.50 heads up, .4 pro tree, dragsters OK, nitrous OK. Allows S/C dragsters to race index and equalizes slow/fast combinations.

Outlaw Super Gas: 8.50 heads up, .4 pro tree, left steer, nitrous OK. Same thing for S/G cars looking for something new as well as the true "outlaw 8.50" racers from Unleashed.

Outlaw Super Street: 10.00 heads up, .4 pro tree, no boxes/stops, exactly the same rules as the current 10.0 class (just give it a name for marketing).

Keep the 11-12 classes the way they are now and give them cool names.

[pentastarrail]

They hear Biondo's are coming.
;-)

[aspen7709]

The fact is there are not near as many class cars out west. Out west we can and do race ALL year long.Our off season is 2 weeks around christmas with the Hangover Nationals starting the season on New years day. With that schedule it is a little time to maintain the up keep or like myself you have a bracket car too. Now you have 2 cars to feed. At a summit series bracket race @ speed world this weekend there were 4 stock eliminator cars racing to get some practice. The sportsman final was Angelo Phillips L/SA vs Rick Unterseh O/SA.With the other cars going to the quarter finals in pro. Yeah we bracket race too for a race that paid $125.00 to win! So is it about the money??? REALLY???No one understands these cars much less want to race one. All i got in the lines was a bunch of bracket racers looking @ me like I had 3 heads.Asking questions like " A thermo quad?? Why dont you use a carb that works?? or I have only heard about these cars..Or You guys are crazy why dont you want to go faster for the money? All that effort in an ASPEN???? WTF? I try to explain the addiction, the fun and our purpose and history...but... it truly depresses me to the point where I just keep to myself and let them ask me what the letters on my window mean.

[Michael Beard]

Actually, I had a number of people admiring the Turismo this weekend (yeah, I said it!), particularly when they find out it's not a turbo car. They understand that it's very fast *for what it is*. It's all relative. This car probably gets more attention than the Volare! I'm sorry that you live in a region where you can't race for decent money and there aren't a lot of people that understand or appreciate S/SS cars. It is not that way everywhere.

You could probably increase participation in S/SS if Super classes weren't allowed in national events.

How are S/SS and .90 classes even remotely tied together? Why would you tell 150+ cars to stay home to pick up 10?

[Jeff Lee]

Originally Posted by Michael Beard

Actually, I had a number of people admiring the Turismo this weekend (yeah, I said it!), particularly when they find out it's not a turbo car. They understand that it's very fast *for what it is*. It's all relative. This car probably gets more attention than the Volare! I'm sorry that you live in a region where you can't race for decent money and there aren't a lot of people that understand or appreciate S/SS cars. It is not that way everywhere.



How are S/SS and .90 classes even remotely tied together? Why would you tell 150+ cars to stay home to pick up 10?

I'm saying there is a desire for racers to participate on the national event level. Prestige, ego, money. If there were no other way to race such a venue without having a pro class car, you would see more entry level stockers.
However, I know NHRA would never drop the super classes so it's a moot point.

Question: Did IHRA find that crate motor stock brought new blood into S/SS? I'm wondering if the statistics show an increase in car counts for Stock. Do the participants generally favor it?

[Marvin Robinson]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lee

I'm saying there is a desire for racers to participate on the national event level. Prestige, ego, money. If there were no other way to race such a venue without having a pro class car, you would see more entry level stockers.
However, I know NHRA would never drop the super classes so it's a moot point.

Question: Did IHRA find that crate motor stock brought new blood into S/SS? I'm wondering if the statistics show an increase in car counts for Stock. Do the participants generally favor it?

Jeff, I think you have hit on a key point here... the S/SS fields were HUGE in the days before there were so many index classes. Super gas was a nice addition in the beginning, when most were door cars, then everyone figured out the liteweight/cheap way to go fast with the dragsters/roadsters, leading up to S/C. Indexes gave bracket racers an entry into National level competition, and it was a lot easier to tread those waters than the tech challenge of S/SS. We lost a lot of potential racers to that direction... I think a good solution would be to have a separate series for the index cars, and have them run on different dates. The mentality from brackets to Class racing is totally different, and having therm run on different weekends might be good for all. (No bias here, I've done both, but from the mentality standpoint, the mindset of the S/SS/Comp guys are closer to the pros approach, and the index cars are a different alignment altogether). Who knows?? Having the Pros/S/SS/Comp guys together, and the Alcohol, TS/SC/SG/SST and Pro Mods together might be good for us, spectators and NHRA.

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lee

I'm saying there is a desire for racers to participate on the national event level. Prestige, ego, money. If there were no other way to race such a venue without having a pro class car, you would see more entry level stockers.
However, I know NHRA would never drop the super classes so it's a moot point.

Question: Did IHRA find that crate motor stock brought new blood into S/SS? I'm wondering if the statistics show an increase in car counts for Stock. Do the participants generally favor it?

Jeff.....Several years ago (more than 15) IHRA was going to drop stock all together or combine them into S/S. The car count was 8 to 12 cars when no NHRA race was going on within around 500 miles. The S/S count was higher then with close to 100 cars at every event. I fought against it HARD then I develoed the dreaded (to NHRA racers) stock "Crate" motor classes and after about 6 months the stocker count took off after management decided to try it. IHRA began to have 60 to 80+ stocker car counts and several NHRA guys stated to run with IHRA also as the sponsor money went up. IHRA had class run offs then also with the high car counts. It was a much less expensive way to race in the beginning. Parts were easy to come by and we had something to compare heads, etc. to in tear down. As time went on they turned into NHRA style cars with the expensive mods allowed today in NHRA stockers. Bogus cylinder heads, lite trans components, shubeck style lifters with crazy spring pressures, 8000+ RPM shift points, and all the other tricks in the book that guys are doing today. Until I quit approx. 10 years ago I kept a handle on it but now its just as expensive to build and maintain a crate engined class car as it is an NHRA stocker and the car counts had dropped due to the economy, lack of pay outs, and the lack of tear downs by competent tech people. I dont blame the good tech guys that IHRA has left (not many) but the time schedule of their races dosent allow for much in the tear down inspection dept. I can see it happenng to the NHRA even though those with more money than sense continue to play the game. Its only a matter of time before it fails and car counts all drasticly in NHRA to. The "rules creap" has caused a lot of it. It has almost changed my mind about running a stocker again and the cost of gas and diesel hasnt helped either.

[Bobby Zlatkin]

Greg Hill, you know that old expression "cut off your nose to spite your face"? Your strategy may just play right into their hands.

'Staying home in protest' might actually backfire on you. When you do decide to go back, you may find that there is no place to go.

At that point, we may all be converting our cars into 10, 11, & 12 sec. cars.

Not saying this in disrespect, but just trying to look at the big picture.

[B Aceves]

Exempt the guys with Cards, A few years ago you would have never been able to
enter Vegas this late with one Grade point, Soooo something has changed !!!!
And I dont think its for the positive