worst red light debate, again!

[HawkBrosMav]

Here's my thoughts after seeing that this has made it 58 pages for the i dunno 15th or 16th time.

We all participate in the sport of Drag racing right? Fastest car wins every time cause it's a performance based sport. Somewhere along the way someone decided they could get WAY more involvement in the sport and let many others join in on their passion for fast cars if he came up with a way to allow the slower car a chance to win somehow. This is where our current form of Bracket racing came from. It was a way to give the slow guy a chance and let many, many new combination of cars into the racing world. To keep an advantage on the the Fast guy's side....because after all HE IS THE FASTER CAR and HE WOULD WIN IN EVERY RACE if it was heads up... this creator of Bracket racing wrote the red light rule so the FIRST guy that lit the bulb red LOST.

Look he gave you a pretty damn good chance to win a race without taking every advantage of being the faster car out of the equation. You could show up with you M/SA car like I have and know when you stage you have NO chance of beating this A/SA car cause he is faster or we would all be building AA/SA cars and every car in the class would be the same combo OR you can show up with the rules the way they are and quit b*tching that the Faster car has all the advantage in the world...

The Faster car is SUPPOSED to win. This IS Drag racing. you've been given the opportunity to win within the rules and this is a classic example of if you give a mouse a cookie, he's gonna want some milk. Quit begging for Milk people.......

Brad Hawk

[John Kelley]

Originally Posted by HawkBrosMav

... this creator of Bracket racing wrote the red light rule so the FIRST guy that lit the bulb red LOST. Brad Hawk

Oh SO WRONG !!
It was done that way because when the Christmas Tree and handicap racing came into being there wasn't the computer technology to do it right !
Now we have the technology with computers to make it fair for all concerned in handicap racing !

[Ed Fernandez]

Originally Posted by John Kelley

Oh SO WRONG !!
It was done that way because when the Christmas Tree and handicap racing came into being there wasn't the computer technology to do it right !
Now we have the technology with computers to make it fair for all concerned in handicap racing !

Yeah it really makes it fair,especially for those non racers who get on here asking for justice.

[John Kelley]

Originally Posted by Ed Fernandez

Yeah it really makes it fair,especially for those non racers who get on here asking for justice.

You like to SLAM people....
BUT you have never given a single sensible reason not to change it !
At post # 90 on this thread you said you were DONE with this subject...... :-)

[Andys dad]

OK I will mention this for the fourth time in this thread - no one has ever responded in all 58 pages

Why is it unfair to have them both lose - advantage no one

A racer who DQd himself does not get a "do over" or muligan


:-) peace

[bill dedman]

Originally Posted by Andys dad

OK I will mention this for the fourth time in this thread - no one has ever responded in all 58 pages

Why is it unfair to have them both lose - advantage no one

A racer who DQd himself does not get a "do over" or muligan


:-) peace

Hey, Dad...

Would you think that disqualifying both cars in a race in which they both broke out would be a good idea?

If you're going to deal with a double red light by disqualifying both cars, to be consistent, you'd have to do the same in a double breakout situation.

What do you think?

And, having eliminated 4 cars (two double red lights and two double breakouts) what would you do for a winner in the Eliminator, if that happened in the last two rounds of racing?

All I see for that plan is unnecessary complication, where eliminating ONLY the worse offender in each case, keeps things fair and introduces NO more complication.

How about it, Dad?

[Andys dad]

Originally Posted by bill dedman

Hey, Dad...

Would you think that disqualifying both cars in a race in which they both broke out would be a good idea?

If you're going to deal with a double red light by disqualifying both cars, to br consistent, you'd have to do the same in a double breakout situation.

What do you think?

And, having eliminated 4 cars (two double red lights and two double breakouts) what would you do for a winner in the Eliminator, if that happened in the last two rounds of racing?

All I see for that plan is unnecessary complication, where eliminating ONLY the worse offender in each case, keeps things fair and introduces NO more complication.

How about it, Dad?

Hey Bill - Ron Here (as it says at the bottom of my posts)

Why not deal with one thing at a time - this thread was about red lights

You did not answer what is UNFAIR about both losing - if both red light

Answer this and then lets start a new thread on break outs



I realize this forum is a form of entertainmenet for you and others

It is a debating society and it is entertaining at times




BTW - BOs use to be the way you described

[Ed Fernandez]

Originally Posted by John Kelley

You like to SLAM people....
BUT you have never given a single sensible reason not to change it !
At post # 90 on this thread you said you were DONE with this subject...... :-)

John Kelly:

NHRA Class #:None
" Type of car:None
Future NHRA # and car:None
Rule change implications for John Kelly:None
Conclusion:Nosey body

[bill dedman]

Originally Posted by Ed Fernandez

John Kelly:

NHRA Class #:None
" Type of car:None
Future NHRA # and car:None
Rule change implications for John Kelly:None
Conclusion:Nosey body

KILL THE MESSENGER note # 6354

No other info... at all.

[Marvin Robinson]

Look, everyone, I see a lot of arguing over advantage being to the "faster" car, and whether it's "fair" or not. What is being confused here is exactly what is a faster car. The AA/S car should always be the fastest car in the eliminator, simply because it has the highest HP/Wt ratio, the question is: is it the fastest AA car. In the case of two same class cars against each other, the race is heads up, and the advantage naturally goes to the fastest car - as it should be.

What's being left out of the discussion is the DRIVER... we race each other for a reason, it's a contest of machine AND MAN.... otherwise, we could give out the prizes after qualifying rounds are over. The drivers compete against each other as well, and that's what the handicap starts allow, the dialing under making the eliminator a level field for everyone... the faster cars DO often have the luxury of seeing a redlight and getting a "bye", and we can rightly debate whether this is fair, but the faster car part is an apples/oranges type of argument. I remember when handicaps used to be set by the National records, and that penalized those who didn't have the ability to go as far under as the guy in the next lane, so some drivers, depending on class matchups, had an unfairly earned advantage. If you think about it, that system could actually favor the slower cars, because any HP improvement will have a bigger effect on a lower HP car (although I know the weights involved would smooth that out somewhat).

The system we have now keeps the driver component in the equation, and the only question is if it's fair to allow the 2nd car leaving the chance to get a freebie... I've been on both the rabbit and tortise side, and there are several advantages the faster car will have regardless of how you handle the redlights. Giving both drivers the opportunity to beat themselves on the tree might be a little more fair... but I don't know that we can ever have a calm or reasoned discussion about it because passions are so high. I think the only time having a faster car should be an advantage is when the two cars are in the same class, and with exception of the redlight issue, we already have that.