Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??

[Bob]

Originally Posted by chris3racing

I have read all of the replies to this post from the beginning and know that I will be blasted for my opinion and comments but here goes. First my name is Mike and I have been involved in NHRA, AHRA, IHRA racing since 1960. I have built, crewed on and raced a car in almost every older class of drag racing except fuel funny car, which I wish I had done. So I think I have earned the right to express my opinion.

I have been working, looking at the rules and talking with current stock and superstock racers to re-create a 68 camaro for stock or superstock. If I followed the rules for stock and superstock in 1969 for this car I would have about as much chance of being competitive as trying to apply and get a license to drive a top fuel funny car today. The 1968 and 1969 cars in stock and superstock today are nothing like they were in those days. The use of all of the aftermarket heads, camshafts, transmissions is nothing like what you could have run in those days. If I put a cut gear muncie four speed in a car, built today, I would be only for fun. This story has come full circle with all of the yelling and complaining about Chrysler and Ford cars not being right. I remember the Hemi and he Thunderbolt. When I started building my current Duster, use to race only chevy back in the day, I started learning a lot about why you could not out run those cars. The factory, even in those days, had so many people running as "team cars" and research car and if you designed something that worked on your car and you were winning the next race every "team car" had the same thing. The first Ford thunderbolt was built on the third floor of a building in Detroit that only select people had access to. Chrysler and Ford only had one thing on their mind and that was they did not care who won as long as the car in the winners circle was theirs.

There are so many compaints about how "bracket racing" has "Killed" class racing. Class racing today is "bracket racing." A man goes out and runs his car wide open to the quarter mile mark and everyone just goes crazy "The man is just killing the class'. Do you not think that the spectators can hear a man lift off of his car at the 1000 foot mark and go the last 320 feet either standing on the brakes or being on and off of the accelerator. During the running of Stock and Superstock the announcer, for NHRA, on NHRA Autocast made a comment about the cars "racing to the 1,000 foot mark." The end of the race track, according to the rules is still 1,320 feet.

Mr. Herb McCandless was the guest commentator for the"Hemi Shoot Out" and was broad cast on NHRA Autocast. Let me tell you I was working in the shop building a new motor and enjoyed the commentary during that event better than almost anything I saw or heard broad cast during the week-end. Herb you did a super job and sounded like you had a lot of fun. Herb commented that many of the cars received in those days came to them in boxes. Now does anyone on here who knows Herb McCandless really think that he was on the brakes or on and off of the throttle when he ran 9.981 to Arlen Vanke's 9.983 to win the 1970 US Nationals at Indy. "Mr. 4-Speed" did what his sponsors expected him to do and that was to give the spectators a show and win the race. It's too bad that NHRA could not have video the Hemi Shoot-Out and recorded you guys doing the commentary, especially the conversation you guys had after the race, I believe third round, when you were comparing old Pro Stock Cars to modern day Pro Stock cars.

There is nothing in this post to "blast" you about. There are some very basic facts that allot of people are overlooking.
1)Todays NHRA is not yesterdays NHRA-times change.
2)It's all about the money, manufacturers have it and NHRA wants it. And NHRA will do what is asked of them to get it.
3)Why is it that the people who race often, let's say those that are in the top 50 in national points, aren't on here bitching all the time?
4)Why is it that armchair racers and proverbiale posters are the ones doing all the bitching?
5)Class racing for the most part does not exist anymore. With class only contested at certain events and no contingency support, Stock Eliminator is a bracket class.
6)Racing to 1000' to save yourself from a HP hit is simply grandiose behavior. Running it to 1320', taking the HP hit, and returning to the next event and letting hang out again is the mark of true racing and a true racer.

[Frank Bialas]

Originally Posted by Greg Hill

David, so you don't like racing against the Mustangs and their superchargers. Most of us think there's not much difference racing against the Challengers or the Mustangs. You either get out run by 5 tenths or 7 tenths. Why don't you do something constructive that would benefit everyone and lobby for FX classes for the new cars. AA through D with AA reserved for blown cars.

Greg many of us feel the same resentment you do, but not much you can do if changes aren't made soon. The PROCESS is working at a snails pace and I'm just tired of being spoon fed! I had a tough time with some of the other OLD combination's, but now we're all dealing with the new IRON. My feelings are bitter/sweet, I like the cars but can't understand NHRA why it's taking so long when they dealt with it not so long ago with the FI stuff? Greg I spoke with David and Keith last year @ Maple Grove and they were all for FX classes because of all the controversy and restrictions/weight at that time.

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by Bob

There is nothing in this post to "blast" you about. There are some very basic facts that allot of people are overlooking.
1)Todays NHRA is not yesterdays NHRA-times change.
2)It's all about the money, manufacturers have it and NHRA wants it. And NHRA will do what is asked of them to get it.
3)Why is it that the people who race often, let's say those that are in the top 50 in national points, aren't on here bitching all the time?
4)Why is it that armchair racers and proverbiale posters are the ones doing all the bitching?
5)Class racing for the most part does not exist anymore. With class only contested at certain events and no contingency support, Stock Eliminator is a bracket class.
6)Racing to 1000' to save yourself from a HP hit is simply grandiose behavior. Running it to 1320', taking the HP hit, and returning to the next event and letting hang out again is the mark of true racing and a true racer.

Everyone read #6 again ! and again, and again............................................. ...

[Chris Barnes]

I just have to point out that racing to the thousand footer is part and parcel of the qualifying game these days--it's the "throttle stop" of Stock.

Stock may be essentially a "bracket class" but if it is, it is the most bad *** of bracket classes!!

I hope that the "nostalgia" craze becomes a permanent flavor in NHRA drag racing. It really places a welcome spotlight on our "old" cars!

I'm sure that the top fifty racers don't have time to waste bitching and moaning here. That, or they're addicted to Facebook!

Chris Barnes
Wagons of Steel
Stock 6621

[Nathan Stinson]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Endless drivel? Really? Unlike you, I actually work on two cars for a customer who has to compete directly with the new cars. Competition Plus called me and did an interview.

The very best you have is childish name calling, you have nothing at all to add to the discussion. Mostly because you have nothing even remotely factual to back up anything you say. How helpful and mature you are.

First of all Alan I havent called you any name other than Alan. No name caling from me I out grew that a long time ago. If I remember right I posted 5th in this thread and made a general statement about times changing, that I liked the old cars and that it is expensive to class race no matter what car you bring to the table, all of which are true statements. Then you came a long and started in on me about how I dont get it and I will never understand because I dont race a stocker(how mature is that?), and how its not like it was 40 years ago. You Know what Alan? You are right, It isnt like it was 40 years ago and that is exactly what I said. You need to get over that fact and yourself.
Here are the facts: the game has changed like it or not. It may change back to the way it used to be, or it may stay the same. You can change with it or you can retire and throw fits on the message boards and in the end there will still be drag racing and more than likely stock eliminator will be a part of that........it just may not be like you want it to be.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Nathan Stinson

First of all Alan I havent called you any name other than Alan. No name caling from me I out grew that a long time ago. If I remember right I posted 5th in this thread and made a general statement about times changing, that I liked the old cars and that it is expensive to class race no matter what car you bring to the table, all of which are true statements. Then you came a long and started in on me about how I dont get it and I will never understand because I dont race a stocker(how mature is that?), and how its not like it was 40 years ago. You Know what Alan? You are right, It isnt like it was 40 years ago and that is exactly what I said. You need to get over that fact and yourself.
Here are the facts: the game has changed like it or not. It may change back to the way it used to be, or it may stay the same. You can change with it or you can retire and throw fits on the message boards and in the end there will still be drag racing and more than likely stock eliminator will be a part of that........it just may not be like you want it to be.

Read the post I replied to again, and see if you can pick out the tone and personal insults. Just like this message, where you accuse people of "throwing fits". That's all you've got, no facts, just attempts to insult.

Together with my customer, we worked for 4 years to develop a competitive car, only to have NHRA pencil his $60K plus investment right into obsolescence. You go right ahead and tell me how well you understand that. If anyone needs to get over themselves, it's you. Good luck with that.

No, we won't be quitting, we won't be retiring, and we won't be silenced, certainly not by people who have no dog in the fight. Sorry to disappoint you. But guys like Bruce, Mark, Billy, Greg Hill, and I will go right on stating the facts, and making the case for what we know is right. If that bothers you, too bad, ignore it, or live with it. It makes no difference to us. We'll fight for what we believe in, for the good of the sport.

[Bob Pagano]

Alan is not alone on this board, there are many.

[Ed Wright]

Only "things changing" are the bogus hp factors applied to some new cars. Fix that and nobody cares what brand or year model they happen to be. A lot of the guys that bought them suddenly became fast and thinks it's fine. Others (already had fast cars) are open about them being bogus and actually tell what % their throttles are open. 69% to 75% are very popular numbers. Others say they are "simply playing the game".

[Nathan Stinson]

Originally Posted by Bob Pagano

Alan is not alone on this board, there are many.

Some are more vocal than others for sure, but yes there are many. Seems like every other thread on here has some mention of "paper" cars, crate motor cars or bogus factors etc.

[Nathan Stinson]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Read the post I replied to again, and see if you can pick out the tone and personal insults. Just like this message, where you accuse people of "throwing fits". That's all you've got, no facts, just attempts to insult.

Together with my customer, we worked for 4 years to develop a competitive car, only to have NHRA pencil his $60K plus investment right into obsolescence. You go right ahead and tell me how well you understand that. If anyone needs to get over themselves, it's you. Good luck with that.

No, we won't be quitting, we won't be retiring, and we won't be silenced, certainly not by people who have no dog in the fight. Sorry to disappoint you. But guys like Bruce, Mark, Billy, Greg Hill, and I will go right on stating the facts, and making the case for what we know is right. If that bothers you, too bad, ignore it, or live with it. It makes no difference to us. We'll fight for what we believe in, for the good of the sport.

I read it again Alan......nope still dont see where I called you a name only stated what I see. I am glad to see that you dont plan on retiring that is a good thing. So at this point what do you and said car owner do? (I assume you are talking about Kevin) Do you change with the game?? Do you keep spending his money and beating on a combo that is no longer competitive?? Do you wait for the rules to change back in your favor??
It doesnt bother me that you make a case for what you feel is right, I guess I just find myself wondering at what point it becomes futile to waste the effort bitching about something that you havent changed in a years worth of "Making your case"
I would never try and guess what the powers at NHRA might do in the future but as for now it appears they have made the decision and it doesnt bode well for your case.