NHRA LODRS Divisional payout info?

[Mike Carr]

Using current entry vs payout ratios in NHRA and IHRA, using a 63 car field in Stock

IHRA 63 cars x 135 per car = $8,505 taken in.
Payouts (round money plus Win and R/U) = $2,840 (3,040 in Super Stock); 33.3% payout of entry fees; IHRA keeps $5,665

Since the five lower Sportsman Eliminators (Stk, S/S, Q/R, S/R and H/R) are the same payouts (+/- $200), IHRA at that race would make, approximately, $27,500 per race, per day, based on entry fee at the gate vs payout. $55,000 for the weekend. Not counting the $40 per crew member for the weekend. This sounds great, unless the cost of the track and IHRA for the weekend is over $60K to put those events on. It would seem that IHRA could be better served to up the round money a bit (currently, you need to get to the fifth round to break even or a little better for your day's entry) to help possibly draw more cars and make the money back that they put into the payout.

BTW, NHRA, based on the same 63 cars, takes in $10,710 (@ $170 per car) and pay out $3,900, keeping $6,810, making their race a 36.1% payback race. Not much better.

Obviously, IHRA and the track probably made little, to nothing (probably lost money), on the Immokalee races. Though I do believe the low car counts are a reflection of the low round money paid out. A racer from up here would tow 1,200 miles one way there to race, make it to the 4th round both days (if it were a six round race), and actually lose money (won $240, paid $270 to race). A person, even those who love to race, would look at that scenario and say "Nah, I'll pass".

I think if IHRA were to increase the round money, or lower the entry fee a bit (getting to the third round gets you your entry fee back) would be a plus to perhaps draw more cars to compete.

[skills]

Since I am not a racer but just a fan my question is how do national events and divisional payouts compare to specialty events? Like the dutch or a s/ss association race? Is there a way for the tracks to get more local sponsors so they can up the payouts to draw more cars? That's really the only way the hra's can survive and expand is more draw of competitors while not losing the ones you have.

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by Mike Carr

Using current entry vs payout ratios in NHRA and IHRA, using a 63 car field in Stock

IHRA 63 cars x 135 per car = $8,505 taken in.
Payouts (round money plus Win and R/U) = $2,840 (3,040 in Super Stock); 33.3% payout of entry fees; IHRA keeps $5,665

Since the five lower Sportsman Eliminators (Stk, S/S, Q/R, S/R and H/R) are the same payouts (+/- $200), IHRA at that race would make, approximately, $27,500 per race, per day, based on entry fee at the gate vs payout. $55,000 for the weekend. Not counting the $40 per crew member for the weekend. This sounds great, unless the cost of the track and IHRA for the weekend is over $60K to put those events on. It would seem that IHRA could be better served to up the round money a bit (currently, you need to get to the fifth round to break even or a little better for your day's entry) to help possibly draw more cars and make the money back that they put into the payout.

BTW, NHRA, based on the same 63 cars, takes in $10,710 (@ $170 per car) and pay out $3,900, keeping $6,810, making their race a 36.1% payback race. Not much better.

Obviously, IHRA and the track probably made little, to nothing (probably lost money), on the Immokalee races. Though I do believe the low car counts are a reflection of the low round money paid out. A racer from up here would tow 1,200 miles one way there to race, make it to the 4th round both days (if it were a six round race), and actually lose money (won $240, paid $270 to race). A person, even those who love to race, would look at that scenario and say "Nah, I'll pass".

I think if IHRA were to increase the round money, or lower the entry fee a bit (getting to the third round gets you your entry fee back) would be a plus to perhaps draw more cars to compete.

What are the odds of winning or being a runner up to gain any winnings worth traveling very far? Not very good at either HRA's to make/cover any expenses in todays economy of high fuel costs, wear and tear, cost of car and prep with todays rules, and entries. The pay outs have NOT kept up with what it cost to compete today. Dont forget that 1/2 (One half of you) WILL loose in the FIRST round. One half of the next round will be on the trailer after the 2nd round. Its a gamble at best no matter what. What matters is....did you have a great time and enjoy yourself in this game called drag racing?

[Toby Lang]

Like they say: "You can't win if you don't play."

Or as Mickey likes to say: "You can't win if you get tangled up."


-Toby

[skills]

X-tech you have a point,but maybe there is a solution to the cost of playing the game. What is say you got a class sponsor? It works for pro mod, I understand there are less cars but they are running for money also. Say you got Hershey's to sponsor D-1 stock and super stock. You could pay larger winnings and maybe pay more say second round winner gets money to cover entry fee. Not only do you need to bring in fans like myself, but we need to keep guys like Ed racing since racers like him bring in different combos that cater to different fans. Yes we all love the big runs from the new cars, but the fun is can they catch the Ed's and Billy Nees of the world.

[Hagen Gary]

Nail on Head, Mike Carr.
Neither offer good return on your money, but at least I get the feeling that NHRA officials are earning that income. You should take a look at IHRA's National Event Payout.

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by skills

X-tech you have a point,but maybe there is a solution to the cost of playing the game. What is say you got a class sponsor? It works for pro mod, I understand there are less cars but they are running for money also. Say you got Hershey's to sponsor D-1 stock and super stock. You could pay larger winnings and maybe pay more say second round winner gets money to cover entry fee. Not only do you need to bring in fans like myself, but we need to keep guys like Ed racing since racers like him bring in different combos that cater to different fans. Yes we all love the big runs from the new cars, but the fun is can they catch the Ed's and Billy Nees of the world.

Speak for yourself.....we ALL do NOT love the so called BIG RUNS by the new cars. Personally Id rather watch Ron Ortiz run Ed Fernandez any day. You know.....REAL and affordable stockers.

[Alan Roehrich]

Sadly, it appears that many sanctioning bodies, and quite a few race tracks, are operating under the theory that charging as much as the market will possibly bear is the best way to have a good bottom line. Sort of the same way many politicians figure the best way to maximize revenue is to maximize the tax rates.


It simply doesn't work. High entry fees combined with stagnant purses and rapidly dwindling contingency payouts are causing car counts to shrink. Low car counts are providing poor shows, and low entertainment value, that, combined with high ticker prices creates empty stands, and poor TV ratings. Empty stands and poor TV ratings turn off potential sponsors. Stack all of this on a weak economy, with high unemployment and higher fuel prices, and you have a good reason for tracks closing, and race cars being parked, or turned into street cars.


You have the same chance at the same money (at least for the winner and runner up) if you tow to Bowling Green for a combo race as you do if you tow to Georgia or Florida for a LODRS race. The entry fee for the Bowling Green race is $50 for the car and driver. The "glory" of a win at a "sanctioned event" will cost you about an extra $600.

NHRA needs to come up with something different. Their current system "punishes" racers if they don't run LODRS races by preventing them from running national events due to a lack of grade points. Honestly, "punishing" potential customers is the wrong approach. They need to be rewarding races for attending LODRS events by treating them better and paying them more. It's a slap in the face to the sportsman racers that "Top Alcohol" is payed more than double for a win and 3 times as much for a runner up finish.


Racers and spectators are customers. They should be treated as such. As opposed to being treated as a cash cow or a sheep to be fleeced.

[Phillip marvetz]

So what has changed that makes the payout percentage so much less than it used to be? Lower car counts or higher operating expenses for HRA's? What needs to be done to get it back to were it used to be?

[Dinsdale]

This may come as a shock to some but a track has to pay a substantial fee to NHRA just for the privledge of holding a divisional event. Their advertising, staff and operational costs are all up for the weekend then they are responsable for covering payouts. No idea how that formula works but what was once an event that made a little money for a track is now becoming a burden for some.

Lower car and spectator counts hurt and there's alot of reasons for that. I agree that the pay-in VS pay-out is completely lopsided but as been often discussed here, this deal is broken from the top down and I don't think it will ever get fixed.