Diaper required at Division 1 Tracks?

BBF67 · 03-23-2012, 05:22 PM

A diaper could well have saved the driver on the 10 second bracket car.

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...458130&page=13

George Mirza · 03-23-2012, 09:29 PM

This is a very 'gray" area when it comes to what safety rules class cars have to use. We have dealt with this a few times with the ASRA races. Usually the car has to fit the rules for the class it's built to race in, not the type of race that it is racing in.

Bottom line is it's up to the track. They may let you test, or run specialty races, like Stk/SS combo's, but if your going to run every week for points you'll need all the safety equiptment required for the bracket your running.

Remember, it's your ***** in the seat, as racers we try to ignor the thoughts about the consequenses of our sport. Things break, accidents happen, it's up to YOU to make sure your car is as safe as possible, and sometimes it's still not enough!

Larry, in no way is this last paragraph directed at you, I understand the situation that many stock and SS races are facing with the diaper rule. Good rule, but can be very difficult and expensive to fit a diaper correctly on most class cars.

George Mirza
ASRA B.O.D.

Brian VP · 03-23-2012, 10:32 PM

I have first hand experience with racing accidents and I can tell you that anything that we can do to possibly prevent them is a good thing. As most of you know, we own a speed shop and everytime that someone comes in to buy there "NEW" seat belts, I hear the same old line "There is nothing wrong with my belts, NHRA is probably getting a kick back." As they complain while they spend their $70 for seat belts they normally follow that telling me about the thousands of dollars that they spent on their car so that they can pick up a tenth of a second. Something else that we all need to understand, something like the diaper rule, effects more than yourself. If you want to run old belts or no belts, if you hate yourself that much than so be it, but running a diaper prevents you from running in front of the person in the other lane and affecting their life. I have learned something over the last 10 years of my life. I love racing, I love it so much that even after the thousands of runs that I have made I still shake after a round of eliminations, but I love my life more. I love my wife, my son, my family, and my friends a whole lot more. We spend a lot of money racing and to be honest the safety aspect is probably one of the cheapest things that we spend money on. So we spend $70 every 2 years for belts. Maybe $500 for a diaper if you need a custom diaper. Pants, jackets, gloves, neck collar. That is it. So lets estimate on the high side you spend $1000 for safety equipment. I would have to think that most people would probably say that to go to a points race or national event for the weekend would probably cost them the same. So tell me is your life worth that weekend? It isn't for me.

SS Engine Guy · 03-23-2012, 11:50 PM

Tell me more about these diapers. Sometimes cars unload or break while in the air and come down hard, sometimes touching the pan. If the diaper is torn is it required to be replaced in order to be acceptable? I would think that it would be.
What happens when an engine lets go and starts a fire? Does the diaper put out the 4-5 qts. of oil that it retains?
Will the diaper stop all parts from exiting the diaper? What I mean is it bullet proof?
Will the extra time spent changing the oil and looking for leaks cause more problems than it solves? Some aren't much on doing regular maintenence is what I'm refering to. An oil soaked diaper might be flamable?
What about the rear area of the block? I've seen cranks let go and take the flywheel and part of the converter with them.

I agree with some that have said. I am more worried about the car in the other lane than I am my car. Just look at some of the wheel alignment junk from pictures of cars in the air.

hotrods1795 · 03-25-2012, 05:38 PM

First, let me say I am not one to oppose safety, but if safety is the issue, then why is it not a mandatory rule for all NHRA, IHRA, etc. and why only 9.90 and quicker.

My understanding is that the diaper does not have to be SFI approved, can be homemade, just so you have somthing to catch the oil and does not have to be fire proof. What if I have a small leak (that I am not aware of), have a diaper on and since the diapers are not fireproof, the leak could soak the diaper and cause a fire due to hot headers, etc.

Having a full bodied SS car makes it even more difficult to put on a diaper than say with a dragster due to header placement, tie rod running thru the oil pan among other things.

Not being required to have a diaper to race SS but being told I cannot test at my local track because I do not have one does not sit well with me.

Danny Henderson
SS/GA 1795

david ring · 03-25-2012, 07:33 PM

In comp we have a choice between a diaper and a belly pan-we use belly pans on our cars since they are so much easier-I don't know if you could build a belly pan to fit the frames of a stocker or super stocker, but if you could, see if the track would accept them as an alternative to a diaper.

Mike Carr · 03-26-2012, 11:48 AM

Since Hagerstown MD (Mason-Dixon Dragway) is the only NHRA Division 1 track we currently race at with our series, I sent an e-mail to Elmer (track owner) about the diaper issue. That NHRA does not yet require diapers on most Sportsman (S/SS and .90 cars), and as such, would we (S/SS) get a pass for the Lee Sherman S/SS Race in November? My e-mail first, and Elmer's replies:

"Hi Elmer. I had a question, that was brought up on a racing messageboard for Stock/Super Stock racing. It was stated that NHRA DIvision 1 is requiring an engine diaper/containment device on all 9.99 and quicker bracket cars. NHRA has, however, not mandated them for NHRA Sportsman racers at Division 1 Nat'l Opens, LODRS Divisional Events or National Events. So, would the S/SS cars competing at the Lee Sherman race in November be required to have a diaper to compete there? Diapers run up to $500, and I don't know how many of the 12 or so 9 second racers we would have in November,would want to pay that much to only need it once or twice a year. Thanks."

Elmer's two replies:

"Under current rules if operating as a stock or super stock event , bracket rules would not apply"

and a few minutes later:

"Also keep in mind that there is no certification or spec on what is a engine diaper it could be a metal tray with a pamper in it. I think you will find this to be true. The rule was put I place more for track oil downs than for other reasons in my opinion. However any thing that keeps oil off the track and from under the tires of a race car can't be a bad thing."

So, for the 10-12 Class cars that run in the 9's that we would get, it looks like you will be OK for the two S/SS races we'll have in November.

Hope this helps...I know several people here (Larry, Larry, Dan and Jeff) participated at H-town last November. So it looks like you will be OK for this year. Thought it appears for a normal weekly test and tune, you will need an oil-containment device.

prixmoracing · 03-27-2012, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotrods1795

My understanding is that the diaper does not have to be SFI approved, can be homemade, just so you have somthing to catch the oil and does not have to be fire proof. What if I have a small leak (that I am not aware of), have a diaper on and since the diapers are not fireproof, the leak could soak the diaper and cause a fire due to hot headers, etc.

Danny Henderson
SS/GA 1795

You are right about it not having to be SFI approved for most classes (classes requiring SFI diapers are spelled out in the rule book under class requirements) but it does have to be NHRA approved, (list can be found on nhraracer.com )So your homemade diaper idea will not fly.

Carl Juliano · 03-27-2012, 08:23 PM

I understand the issues w/the S/SS cars fitting them in tight quarters and not an easy on and off. But I cant say enough about the benefit of having one . Unfortunately I've tested them both in my S/G car and my TS car over the past 2 seasons. Both incidents happened on top end around 1000'. Both engine failures were huge, rods thru the pan, and in the TS car I broke the block. The diapers both held 95% of the oil (very minimal cleanup for the crews) and all the pieces of block and rods were in them. Both times I was able to stop the car safely, and park it out of the groove. These $200 items saved my cars and possibly my life.
Just my .02

hotrods1795 · 03-27-2012, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prixmoracing

You are right about it not having to be SFI approved for most classes (classes requiring SFI diapers are spelled out in the rule book under class requirements) but it does have to be NHRA approved, (list can be found on nhraracer.com )So your homemade diaper idea will not fly.

To reply to your quote about not allowing self-made diapers, below is the exact wording from a local track regarding what is required.

"CARS & DRAGSTERS
7.50-9.99 Oil Retention device must be employed Can be self made or purchased online (no SFI rating at this time)"

Danny Henderson
SS/GA 1795

03-23-2012, 05:22 PM	#1
BBF67 Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 89 Likes: 0 Liked 8 Times in 4 Posts	Re: Diaper required at Division 1 Tracks? A diaper could well have saved the driver on the 10 second bracket car. http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...458130&page=13

03-23-2012, 09:29 PM	#2
George Mirza Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: North Attleborough Ma. Posts: 522 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Diaper required at Division 1 Tracks? This is a very 'gray" area when it comes to what safety rules class cars have to use. We have dealt with this a few times with the ASRA races. Usually the car has to fit the rules for the class it's built to race in, not the type of race that it is racing in. Bottom line is it's up to the track. They may let you test, or run specialty races, like Stk/SS combo's, but if your going to run every week for points you'll need all the safety equiptment required for the bracket your running. Remember, it's your ***** in the seat, as racers we try to ignor the thoughts about the consequenses of our sport. Things break, accidents happen, it's up to YOU to make sure your car is as safe as possible, and sometimes it's still not enough! Larry, in no way is this last paragraph directed at you, I understand the situation that many stock and SS races are facing with the diaper rule. Good rule, but can be very difficult and expensive to fit a diaper correctly on most class cars. George Mirza ASRA B.O.D.

03-23-2012, 10:32 PM	#3
Brian VP Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 144 Likes: 0 Liked 8 Times in 1 Post	Re: Diaper required at Division 1 Tracks? I have first hand experience with racing accidents and I can tell you that anything that we can do to possibly prevent them is a good thing. As most of you know, we own a speed shop and everytime that someone comes in to buy there "NEW" seat belts, I hear the same old line "There is nothing wrong with my belts, NHRA is probably getting a kick back." As they complain while they spend their $70 for seat belts they normally follow that telling me about the thousands of dollars that they spent on their car so that they can pick up a tenth of a second. Something else that we all need to understand, something like the diaper rule, effects more than yourself. If you want to run old belts or no belts, if you hate yourself that much than so be it, but running a diaper prevents you from running in front of the person in the other lane and affecting their life. I have learned something over the last 10 years of my life. I love racing, I love it so much that even after the thousands of runs that I have made I still shake after a round of eliminations, but I love my life more. I love my wife, my son, my family, and my friends a whole lot more. We spend a lot of money racing and to be honest the safety aspect is probably one of the cheapest things that we spend money on. So we spend $70 every 2 years for belts. Maybe $500 for a diaper if you need a custom diaper. Pants, jackets, gloves, neck collar. That is it. So lets estimate on the high side you spend $1000 for safety equipment. I would have to think that most people would probably say that to go to a points race or national event for the weekend would probably cost them the same. So tell me is your life worth that weekend? It isn't for me. __________________ Brian Van Poppel 1682 SS

03-23-2012, 11:50 PM	#4
SS Engine Guy Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: usa Posts: 256 Likes: 1 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Diaper required at Division 1 Tracks? Tell me more about these diapers. Sometimes cars unload or break while in the air and come down hard, sometimes touching the pan. If the diaper is torn is it required to be replaced in order to be acceptable? I would think that it would be. What happens when an engine lets go and starts a fire? Does the diaper put out the 4-5 qts. of oil that it retains? Will the diaper stop all parts from exiting the diaper? What I mean is it bullet proof? Will the extra time spent changing the oil and looking for leaks cause more problems than it solves? Some aren't much on doing regular maintenence is what I'm refering to. An oil soaked diaper might be flamable? What about the rear area of the block? I've seen cranks let go and take the flywheel and part of the converter with them. I agree with some that have said. I am more worried about the car in the other lane than I am my car. Just look at some of the wheel alignment junk from pictures of cars in the air.

03-25-2012, 05:38 PM	#5
hotrods1795 Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 38 Likes: 0 Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Diaper required at Division 1 Tracks? First, let me say I am not one to oppose safety, but if safety is the issue, then why is it not a mandatory rule for all NHRA, IHRA, etc. and why only 9.90 and quicker. My understanding is that the diaper does not have to be SFI approved, can be homemade, just so you have somthing to catch the oil and does not have to be fire proof. What if I have a small leak (that I am not aware of), have a diaper on and since the diapers are not fireproof, the leak could soak the diaper and cause a fire due to hot headers, etc. Having a full bodied SS car makes it even more difficult to put on a diaper than say with a dragster due to header placement, tie rod running thru the oil pan among other things. Not being required to have a diaper to race SS but being told I cannot test at my local track because I do not have one does not sit well with me. Danny Henderson SS/GA 1795

03-25-2012, 07:33 PM	#6
david ring Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Oneonta.,NY Posts: 889 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Diaper required at Division 1 Tracks? In comp we have a choice between a diaper and a belly pan-we use belly pans on our cars since they are so much easier-I don't know if you could build a belly pan to fit the frames of a stocker or super stocker, but if you could, see if the track would accept them as an alternative to a diaper.

03-26-2012, 11:48 AM	#7
Mike Carr VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Enon Valley PA Posts: 1,650 Likes: 234 Liked 83 Times in 37 Posts	Re: Diaper required at Division 1 Tracks? Since Hagerstown MD (Mason-Dixon Dragway) is the only NHRA Division 1 track we currently race at with our series, I sent an e-mail to Elmer (track owner) about the diaper issue. That NHRA does not yet require diapers on most Sportsman (S/SS and .90 cars), and as such, would we (S/SS) get a pass for the Lee Sherman S/SS Race in November? My e-mail first, and Elmer's replies: "Hi Elmer. I had a question, that was brought up on a racing messageboard for Stock/Super Stock racing. It was stated that NHRA DIvision 1 is requiring an engine diaper/containment device on all 9.99 and quicker bracket cars. NHRA has, however, not mandated them for NHRA Sportsman racers at Division 1 Nat'l Opens, LODRS Divisional Events or National Events. So, would the S/SS cars competing at the Lee Sherman race in November be required to have a diaper to compete there? Diapers run up to $500, and I don't know how many of the 12 or so 9 second racers we would have in November,would want to pay that much to only need it once or twice a year. Thanks." Elmer's two replies: "Under current rules if operating as a stock or super stock event , bracket rules would not apply" and a few minutes later: "Also keep in mind that there is no certification or spec on what is a engine diaper it could be a metal tray with a pamper in it. I think you will find this to be true. The rule was put I place more for track oil downs than for other reasons in my opinion. However any thing that keeps oil off the track and from under the tires of a race car can't be a bad thing." So, for the 10-12 Class cars that run in the 9's that we would get, it looks like you will be OK for the two S/SS races we'll have in November. Hope this helps...I know several people here (Larry, Larry, Dan and Jeff) participated at H-town last November. So it looks like you will be OK for this year. Thought it appears for a normal weekly test and tune, you will need an oil-containment device. __________________ Mike Carr, Tri-State S/SS Association President Looking for 2015 S/SS Race Sponsors Contact me if interested buffdaddy_1302@hotmail.com (724) 510-5912

03-27-2012, 08:23 PM	#9
Carl Juliano Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Queens, NYC Posts: 294 Likes: 234 Liked 64 Times in 25 Posts	Re: Diaper required at Division 1 Tracks? I understand the issues w/the S/SS cars fitting them in tight quarters and not an easy on and off. But I cant say enough about the benefit of having one . Unfortunately I've tested them both in my S/G car and my TS car over the past 2 seasons. Both incidents happened on top end around 1000'. Both engine failures were huge, rods thru the pan, and in the TS car I broke the block. The diapers both held 95% of the oil (very minimal cleanup for the crews) and all the pieces of block and rods were in them. Both times I was able to stop the car safely, and park it out of the groove. These $200 items saved my cars and possibly my life. Just my .02 __________________ Carl Juliano TS 1275 John Juliano SG 151 Carl Sr.