55 gal drum: What transfer pump to use?

[PETE PEERY]

For a fast and efficient method get a ball valve with pipe threads and install galvanized pipe on one side and hose in the other. Install in small hole of drum and a tire valve stem in large bung and pressurize with air. This will transfer fuel very quickly and no mess.

Pete

[63corvette]

Originally Posted by PETE PEERY

For a fast and efficient method get a ball valve with pipe threads and install galvanized pipe on one side and hose in the other. Install in small hole of drum and a tire valve stem in large bung and pressurize with air. This will transfer fuel very quickly and no mess.

Pete

Be very afraid of this method.
You are building a bomb with this.
Air and gas in a barrel is not safe plus a barrel is not rated as a pressure vessel.
If you are going to do this at all use nitrogen to pressure a gas filled vessel.
Be very afraid on this method as noted as gas and air/oxygen do not mix safely in a closed vessel.
My 2 Cents
Rick Cates

[KRatcliff]

Do you have any fuel barrels that don't have any air in them? Unless a fuel barrel is completely filled with fuel then they are all potential bombs. As is your fuel can, fuel cell, fuel tank, etc...

I read it as the air is pushing out the fuel out the hose, not building a bomb.

[63corvette]

Originally Posted by KRatcliff

Do you have any fuel barrels that don't have any air in them? Unless a fuel barrel is completely filled with fuel then they are all potential bombs. As is your fuel can, fuel cell, fuel tank, etc...

I read it as the air is pushing out the fuel out the hose, not building a bomb.

There is very little air/oxygen in the barrel as you empty them.
It is made up for the most part by fumes from the gas itself which vaporizes as you give it space in the barrel.
I worked in the oil and gas industry for 40 plus years and I can assure you if you use air to pressurize a barrel at some point it will explode. You may get away with it for years but at some point it will possibly end your life or leave you with a very bad injury of some type.
Trust me on this one a partially full barrel of gas is a very dangerous thing. It is much safer as a full or completely empty with the bungs out of it and vented and NOT pressurized.

I witnessed my step father loose a leg to a 55 gal barrel using it empty for a ladder/platform to stand on. It was a hot day and built pressure inside and exploded with him on top. It blew the top out of the barrel and severed his leg just below the knee.

Used barrels of any type can be very dangerous if not handled correctly and pressurizing them is improper use.

Like Bob said buy a pump. It could save your life or at least not injure you.

My Experience Here
Rick Cates

[KRatcliff]

I think you are reading it wrong as far as pressurizing goes. I am reading it as adding slightly more pressure than the ambient air pressure which would flow the fuel from one barrel to another. It takes less pressure to move the fuel than what is within the barrel when they "pop" with temperature changes.

It is exactly the inverse of siphoning where you are pulling a vacuum. In both instances you are adding air/oxygen to the original barrel. And you are adding air/oxygen when using a transfer pump.

Even the fuel tank in your car/truck has an air vent that draws air/oxygen into it as the fuel pump removes it during consumption. I think you and Bob are referring to situations that truly pressurize the barrels way beyond what was suggested. YMMV.

[63corvette]

Originally Posted by KRatcliff

I think you are reading it wrong as far as pressurizing goes. I am reading it as adding slightly more pressure than the ambient air pressure which would flow the fuel from one barrel to another. It takes less pressure to move the fuel than what is within the barrel when they "pop" with temperature changes.

It is exactly the inverse of siphoning where you are pulling a vacuum. In both instances you are adding air/oxygen to the original barrel. And you are adding air/oxygen when using a transfer pump.

Even the fuel tank in your car/truck has an air vent that draws air/oxygen into it as the fuel pump removes it during consumption. I think you and Bob are referring to situations that truly pressurize the barrels way beyond what was suggested. YMMV.

No, I understand exactly what you are doing. You are using low pressure to push the fuel out using the same principle as a hyd. jack uses to raise a car.
The issue is adding air/oxygen to the vessel/barrel.
Gasoline has a vapor pressure as all liquids do and will evaporate when it is in an open container. That is the reason for the bungs to be in the barrel when partially full and keep it from going into a vapor. Those vapors fill the void as gasoline is removed.
It is true some air comes in but in very small amounts and air contains only about 19% oxygen. Oxygen is the problem. Much much less than putting an air hose to the barrel. That air amount is what causes the problem and the less liquid in the barrel the greater the danger as that allows more air which in turn is more oxygen.

Like I stated I worked in the oil and gas industry for 40 plus years before retirement and tested and disposed of many barrels over the years. We always used an explosive meter to test the barrels before doing anything with them.
Trust me on this pressurizing a barrel is a bad idea as it is not a pressure vessel and using air instead of an inert gas like nitrogen is a really bad idea.
I do not want to see anyone injured and pressurizing a barrel with air will cause someone to be injured at some point. Maybe not the first or tenth time but at some point it will happen.
Buy a pump and handle gasoline with care as it can be dangerous if not handled properly.
We all pump gas into our tanks daily and most of us do not realize really how dangerous it really is.

I am old and this is my experience.
Rick Cates

[Greg Barsamian]

The VP Truck sells those pumps at all events, Pumps, jugs, barrel wrenches, funnels, caps with filler hoses (those are the best) spare caps & vent caps.

PLUS free "fuel" calendars!

Remember when using those pumps once you get it flowing, you can stop pumping and use the vent to continue the siphon transfer, It takes no time to empty out a drum.
I've seen racers buy drums of methanol at the track and pump it into jugs to save the additional drum charge!

[Bob Mulry]

Originally Posted by KRatcliff

I think you are reading it wrong as far as pressurizing goes. I am reading it as adding slightly more pressure than the ambient air pressure which would flow the fuel from one barrel to another. It takes less pressure to move the fuel than what is within the barrel when they "pop" with temperature changes.

It is exactly the inverse of siphoning where you are pulling a vacuum. In both instances you are adding air/oxygen to the original barrel. And you are adding air/oxygen when using a transfer pump.

Even the fuel tank in your car/truck has an air vent that draws air/oxygen into it as the fuel pump removes it during consumption. I think you and Bob are referring to situations that truly pressurize the barrels way beyond what was suggested. YMMV.

Lets do a little Middle School math................

55 gallon drum has a diameter of 22"

Area of a circle (end of drum) = 2Pi x R squared

Area = 760 square inches

760 square inches X 25psi = 19,006 pounds of force against the barrel end...

You might want to rethink your position on the safety of low air pressure in a non-pressure vessel.....

Bob

[KRatcliff]

You might want to reread what I said. It is in your quote. I never said to pressurize it to 25 psi. You did.

[Bob Mulry]

Originally Posted by PETE PEERY

For a fast and efficient method get a ball valve with pipe threads and install galvanized pipe on one side and hose in the other. Install in small hole of drum and a tire valve stem in large bung and pressurize with air. This will transfer fuel very quickly and no mess.

Pete

When I worked at the shipyards I saw a crane operator almost take head off with the end of a 55-gallon drum...............

He laid the drum on its side attached a transfer hose to the lower bung and an air hose to the upper bung to transfer diesel fuel into the crane.....

He turned on the air and it blew off the end of the drum killing him instantly and blowing 55 gallons of diesel fuel in all directions......

BAD IDEA........

Save your life and buy a $20 plastic pump from Graingers

Bob