Ford First "Stocker" Into The Eights

[Bruce Noland]

Originally Posted by Larry Hill

Ford builds a 900 Hp engine and sells it to NHRA at 425 Hp what BS.

Many of us called BS on this deal back in 2008. nhra is the lady of the streets on this deal. The oem's flaunted a little cash and nhra stumbled over any class it may have had left to grab the chump change. Where are all the new car enablers now? And, exactly how have the new cars helped the majority of Stock racers? What benefits have trickled down to them? Sure the little magazine writers, oem dealers and fab guys got a boost from it. But what the hell have these new cars done for the majority of Stock racers? Nothing! All the new cars have done is given the ego guys a chance to take advantage of their fellow racers and, in the end, they have chased off many dedicated racers. This scam was obvious to all of us from the very beginning. No matter which side a person supported we all knew it was a scam. nhra knew it as well and chose the cowards way out by hiding behind the ahfs. This sordid tale will not smell any better in the years to come.

[Greg Hill]

Originally Posted by Bruce Noland

Many of us called BS on this deal back in 2008. nhra is the lady of the streets on this deal. The oem's flaunted a little cash and nhra stumbled over any class it may have had left to grab the chump change. Where are all the new car enablers now? And, exactly how have the new cars helped the majority of Stock racers? What benefits have trickled down to them? Sure the little magazine writers, oem dealers and fab guys got a boost from it. But what the hell have these new cars done for the majority of Stock racers? Nothing! All the new cars have done is given the ego guys a chance to take advantage of their fellow racers and, in the end, they have chased off many dedicated racers. This scam was obvious to all of us from the very beginning. No matter which side a person supported we all knew it was a scam. nhra knew it as well and chose the cowards way out by hiding behind the ahfs. This sordid tale will not smell any better in the years to come.

I believe Bruce summed it up perfectly.

[SSGN]

Originally Posted by Greg Hill

I believe Bruce summed it up perfectly.

I agree it is an amazing car and congrats to Don Fezell.That being said if these cars are sooo good for class racing and this was an amazing event,why is their nobody in the stands???

Kevin

[bigshow2966]

Originally Posted by SSGN

I agree it is an amazing car and congrats to Don Fezell.That being said if these cars are sooo good for class racing and this was an amazing event,why is their nobody in the stands???

Kevin

Because no matter what anyone wants to believe, every class that isn't powered by nitro is just space filler between nitro rounds.

[Jack Matyas]

Originally Posted by Bruce Noland

And, exactly how have the new cars helped the majority of Stock racers?

Bruce - OK , since you want to stir the pot some I'll jump in with my own spoon .In the history of Stock / Superstock racing never has there been so much "buzz" going on than now - everyone has noticed and is talking about whats going on - these cars have put new life back into our sport which had become very stale .Having the " Big Three " involved and building cars has been nothing but positive from all sides ......well , maybe all but yours .On the negitive side is the horsepower factors which have taken too long to stablize but the other cars are catching back up - did you notice the three LS1 cars in the top ten this weekend in Charlotte ? Were the " new " cars laying down - I don't think so .And then there's Steve Szupkas' little giant killer I/SA 305 car going 11.25 in the # 5 spot - certainly not a million dollar car - they just work hard and keep trying .My point is that the AHFS is working .

As for Don Fizells' historic 8 second run - kudos to Don and his team - much as people think so these cars are not " plug and play " as I'm sure it took plenty of hard work ( and probably a wheelbarrow of cash ) .

And finally about Bobby DeArmonds 9 second pass - no one can take a moment away from him - its his forever .The first ten second , 9 second and now 8 second run came to pass for only one reason and its time everyone got used to it ---- Rule Changes .

Let the hate mail begin but please no Kryptonite ....................

[abongi]

Originally Posted by Jack Matyas

Bruce - OK , since you want to stir the pot some I'll jump in with my own spoon .In the history of Stock / Superstock racing never has there been so much "buzz" going on than now - everyone has noticed and is talking about whats going on - these cars have put new life back into our sport which had become very stale .Having the " Big Three " involved and building cars has been nothing but positive from all sides ......well , maybe all but yours .On the negitive side is the horsepower factors which have taken too long to stablize but the other cars are catching back up - did you notice the three LS1 cars in the top ten this weekend in Charlotte ? Were the " new " cars laying down - I don't think so .And then there's Steve Szupkas' little giant killer I/SA 305 car going 11.25 in the # 5 spot - certainly not a million dollar car - they just work hard and keep trying .My point is that the AHFS is working .

As for Don Fizells' historic 8 second run - kudos to Don and his team - much as people think so these cars are not " plug and play " as I'm sure it took plenty of hard work ( and probably a wheelbarrow of cash ) .

And finally about Bobby DeArmonds 9 second pass - no one can take a moment away from him - its his forever .The first ten second , 9 second and now 8 second run came to pass for only one reason and its time everyone got used to it ---- Rule Changes .

Let the hate mail begin but please no Kryptonite ....................

Nicely said Jack. Many people wildly underestimate the amount of work and effort that it takes to make these cars run. There's nothing "out of the box" about making them run at the top of their class. I love the old stuff but I wanted the challenge of making a new car with new technology that hadn't been all scienced out go fast. And it was a lot more effort than I ever dreamed.

CONGRATS to Don. Don and his team worked hard to get there and they deserve the accolades, not the criticisms.

[Mike Carr]

Originally Posted by Jack Matyas

Bruce - OK , since you want to stir the pot some I'll jump in with my own spoon .In the history of Stock / Superstock racing never has there been so much "buzz" going on than now - everyone has noticed and is talking about whats going on - these cars have put new life back into our sport which had become very stale .Having the " Big Three " involved and building cars has been nothing but positive from all sides ......well , maybe all but yours .On the negitive side is the horsepower factors which have taken too long to stablize but the other cars are catching back up - did you notice the three LS1 cars in the top ten this weekend in Charlotte ? Were the " new " cars laying down - I don't think so .And then there's Steve Szupkas' little giant killer I/SA 305 car going 11.25 in the # 5 spot - certainly not a million dollar car - they just work hard and keep trying .My point is that the AHFS is working .

As for Don Fizells' historic 8 second run - kudos to Don and his team - much as people think so these cars are not " plug and play " as I'm sure it took plenty of hard work ( and probably a wheelbarrow of cash ) .

And finally about Bobby DeArmonds 9 second pass - no one can take a moment away from him - its his forever .The first ten second , 9 second and now 8 second run came to pass for only one reason and its time everyone got used to it ---- Rule Changes .

Let the hate mail begin but please no Kryptonite ....................

I guess I'll take a stab at this one....no hate mail, just respectful opinions/statements.

Jack, you are correct. There HAS been a buzz surrounding Class Racing that is almost never seen/heard, other than for the Hemi Shootouts. That said, like Bruce asked, "How has this helped the majority of S/SS racers?". And, IMO, it hasn't.

-Has it brought in a large group of new racers to the class? No. Most (most) of the people racing the new CJ and DP cars were already racing in S/SS. David Barton, Bo Kenney, Irvin Johns, Eric Merryfield, to name just a few. Sure, we've had a few people either new, or returning after long layoffs (Don Fezell, Charlie Fitzsimmons, to name two), but in the grand scheme of things, it hasn't done much to increase car counts in S/SS. And, when you factor in the fact that many current Stock racers have scaled back, or quit, racing, the gain is minimal, to no gain at all. And, to further discuss the point of the buzz, I don't see that the hype/media exposure has brought in any new sponsors or anything to Class Racing (has anyone here gained a sponsor because "They [the sponsor] want to get in on this class racing deal, it looks exciting"?) No real huge benefit to the MAJORITY of S/SS racers. A boost to the ego's of a few, and general disdain, headaches and disapointment to many.

-The horsepower factors are 'catching up'. Yes...to a point. Not nearly fast enough for most of us. Case in point--the 5.7 liter DragPak. Started out at the factory 305 rating. The first race it hit the track, June 2010, two people (Merryfield and Roy Johnson) both went more than -1.20 (more than -1.50 under the old Index) under in F/SA, and hit it. At Bristol, a slow, hot, altitude track in more than 3,500' corrected altitude

1 1883 F/SA Eric Merryfield, Andover MA, '09 Challenger10.586 11.85 -1.264
2 2216 F/SA Roy Johnson, Greenville TN, '09 Challenger 10.630 11.85 -1.220

This combination received a hit for that race. Fast forward just over a year later, late June 2011. By then, the 5.7 had been hit up to 404 (a ninety-nine HP increase in about 54 weeks). As a side note to the above F/SA runs, to this day, there aren't many, if ANY, F/SA that can run a 10.6 in even the best Atco air.

1 5035 A/SA Keith Lynch, Greenville OH, '10 Challenger 9.929 11.00 -1.071

I think this helps prove the point. That, while the AHFS may indeed be working to a point, it isn't near enough, or fast enough. With the new-for-2011 rule that, 'the faster you go, the more HP you get', it may help over time. BUT, if NHRA would have had the foresight, people in charge who were smart enough and cared enough, this all could have been solved before it started. Case in point, a comparison between the late 1970's 360 Mopar engine in a Volare/Aspen, and a modern Mopar 360 in a DragPak:

The 5.9 360 cid Mopar engine in the late 1970's Aspen/Volare's is rated 289, by NHRA. A fast one of these will run 11.1's to 11.20's in H/SA (Jim Wahl in Florida has one). Now, compare Jeff Tueton's 2009 5.9 360 in a DragPak, with every advantage you could want over the old cars/engines. It has a 1000 cfm throttle body, better, plastic intake, better flowing heads, .490" roller cam, and has run 10.52 in G/SA, while running at H weight , and was rated at the time at 275!!!. NHRA should have looked at the specs and realized that a FAR superior engine should NOT be rated FOURTEEN HP LESS!!! And oh yeah, Jeff's DP at the time got to weigh one hundred and fifty four (154) pounds LESS than Jim's Aspen. Can you say "bring a tank to a water pistol fight"?

NHRA, in my opinion, should have looked at the specs and started the new cars at a fairer rating. Using the above info, instead of 275, they could have started the modern 360 at, say, 300, 310, 325, whatever. THAT, in itself, would have been a big deal...trying to level the playing field from the get-go. Again, just my humble, respectful opinion. Yes, the older cars are catching up, slowly. Assuming no new CJ/DP/Copo combos are built after 2012, and we have just the current available engines, they might catch up almost, almost, totally, in a few years.

-Fezell's run. Yes, it's fast. Yes, it's historic. And, while many do not place this as large of an accomplishment as Bobby D and Jim Waldo's feats, it definately has it's place in history.

[Mike Carr]

NHRA actually have avoided this whole transgression with one or two simple lines in the Rulebook:

"If you could not buy the car, as is, and license it, register it, insure it, and drive it home, it is not a Stocker, it is S/S only".

Like the Race Hemi's, AMX, Thunderbolts, etc.

[Jim Wahl]

Originally Posted by Mike Carr

NHRA actually have avoided this whole transgression with one or two simple lines in the Rulebook:

"If you could not buy the car, as is, and license it, register it, insure it, and drive it home, it is not a Stocker, it is S/S only".

Like the Race Hemi's, AMX, Thunderbolts, etc.

Exactly! Jim

.

[Pvt Parts]

Originally Posted by Mike Carr

NHRA actually have avoided this whole transgression with one or two simple lines in the Rulebook:

"If you could not buy the car, as is, and license it, register it, insure it, and drive it home, it is not a Stocker, it is S/S only".

Like the Race Hemi's, AMX, Thunderbolts, etc.

I tend to agree as well, but I can appreciate both sides. The addition of these cars is not much different that when NHRA combined SS and Modified. However, all of the modified cars have their own classes.... as it should be in Stock.

In support of that, look at comp. Turbo charged cars have their own classes as do the supercharged cars.

All of the stockers could run in the eliminator against each other fairly but the the new "order from a menu" cars should not be combined in the same classes with "real" OEM stockers. There is no factor or equation that will ever make them the same.